Spanish monument 6 ft high with a treasure map on it:

[SabeSix]

I'm new to this site and I posted this in the General Discussion area but it seems nobody commented.
I feel this is a treasure map. It's pretty old I figure and in a well known treasure area because of the white patina it's not a fake but I don't know how to read it or what it means. I've seen a lot of Spanish signs and found carved flowers on trees and hearts before and from reading other posts in this forum I figure it must be related to the number 7 but then there's the little map going to the left and this has some kind of special meaning I'm sure.
It' was very hard to spot due to the overgrowth of bushes near a stream.
Lots of effort must have been required to move this hunk of rock and plant it in the ground cause it's about 6' high and 2 ft. square. It's not natural.
I feel the little map jutting out from the fancy 7 is the key. Reading from right to left I think it could be a shaft or tunnel first then a hill and a circle that is probably the treasure? but then it just ends. The carving is about 20" high.
Can anyone telll me what these signs mean?

 

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[Oroblanco]

WELCOME TO TREASURENET SabeSix!

Thank you for posting this, and sorry that no one ventured any guesses while it was under a different board. I will take a stab at this, but am not sure that it is Spanish, nor necessarily a treasure map, due to at least two letters I can see in the photo, which are not Spanish but Punic or Phoenician, to the right of the odd "seven" is the letter "Qoph" which is like our modern 'Q", and to the left of the "seven" is either a "Gimel" ("G") or "Resh" ("R"). It would then be read right to left rather than left to right, and there are no vowels in their alphabets you have to guess at them. I don't have my Punic dictionary handy and I don't know of any online, plus it looks like there are several other Punic letters also there but too dim to make out clearly so I can't tell you what it says (yet). I would suggest taking a tracing sheet and do a rubbing of the stone, which should bring out better details of the letters that are hard to make out.

If it is Punic or Phoeniian, it still could be a treasure map - the "seven" may show a river that you have to follow to find the treasure or a trail but remember in ancient times rivers were the highways so my bet is that is a river. I am sure that many will take exception to what I am saying, as according to historians no Phoenicians are supposed to have ever reached America but there is good evidence to prove they did, and they were the richest merchants and best seafarers in the ancient world. They buried treasures which have never been found, and they preferred islands in rivers or peninsulas with a narrow neck of land connecting it to the mainland for hiding places. They also loved to hide treasures in caves.

I would love to ask you more questions about this map, but without giving away too much details may I at least ask in what state it was found, that is if it were found in the USA? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[minetres]

The seven can mean a camp site and it can mean Gold. I think the sharp point of the seven is pointing to the area where the hidden treasure or mine is. I also believe the little map is what the exact area looks like where the treasure is hidden. I have seen too many sevens in places where there was no campsite but for one person and there were Gold storage Vaults. You are very close to that area.

Regards

Minetres

 

[SabeSix]

Thanks for the input guys.

Oroblanco: I will say that it is in a US southwestern state which was part of New Spain.

I opend this in photoshop and tweeked the contrast then enhanced and traced the outline to give a better view because it was hard to tell due to the patina mixing with the outlines in the photo. I hope this helps see whats going on. I am an artist so I treid to keep it as close to possible to the original pic.

I was even thinking that maybe it was Jesuit because if you turn it upside down and backwards it makes a pretty good J. I read on this site that sometimes they did that.

One more thing: In one ancient language before Greek I saw that there was a letter that looked kind of like this backward E. It might be a streach but it stood for S. The overall shape of this carving is kinda like that. But I'm not asserting that it is.

Mintress: Yeah was thinking that too about the pointed part of the 7. It's in a small valley where a couple of streams intersect. Cliffs run north to south and the monument carving faces the west face.

After reading here on this site about the different animals in the rocks pointing to treasure I'll have to go back there and take some more pictures and see if there is any more to see.

Here's my enhanced version;
Thanks for the replies

 

[Old Dog]

Here is a negative version doing the same thing .
I think what you have is a camp site marker with the route included.

 

[SabeSix]

Thanks for the description Old Dog. I greatly value your opinion. I was wondering if you could tell me a little more cause the place where it's at is a flat valley a quarter mile wide and more than twenty miles long with a stream in it and it seems like you could camp anywhere along it.

There are rocks this size along the cliffs of the valley but to drag one to the middle of the cliffs where the river is, all that way, and plant it in the ground standing up like that, seems like a lot of work just to mark a campsite.

So is this a map to the campsite or is it marking the route to take from the campsite here. How would you read it? From the bottom up or is it a birds eye view? It's facing the cliff face so the little map parallels the canyon. The top of the 7 also parallels the cliff and that makes the leg of the seven perpendicular so to speak with the cliffs.

Not opposed to what your saying and your probably right, just wanted to see what else and how something like this is read.

There are lots of Spanish signs up every canyon in this area and it's near a main Spanish trail.

Thanks a million for your input guys.

 

[Old Dog]

I would follow the cliffs until I found where the trail forks,
Take the fork and within 50 to 100 yards of the main trail there will be a suitable campsite.
the trail depicted by the 7 should be evident as you follow it.
The branch should be evident as well.

These kinds of trails were main thoroughfares for traders and soldiers.
They didn't vary from them much, and traveled often in groups for safety sake.
These groups traveling the same routes made very evident their signs of passage.
you will find them either at eye level or about 4 feet above eye level (eye level to a man on horseback).
These signs will be 30 to 50 yards apart and will consist of axe cut stumps and pointer shaped stones as well as carved symbols on the rocks.

Please note that the center branch is shaped like a 3, this being noted says that the short trail off of the main one was mainly a camp and nothing more, the 3 would tell you of a dead end ahead (turn about, wrong way)

Hope you keep us filled in, I look forward to seeing your pictures of these trail signs.

Thom

 

[minetres]

There is no doubt this is a campsite area, but alot of treasures were hidden in and around camp sites. Along the cliffs look at all of the rock structures with the camera also for anything out of place or manmade, animal and human faces, hearts and turtles. check out the canyon where the two streams meet look for any thing diffrent and try to think about where you would hide something if you had to. At every hidden mine and treasure site there will be more monuments or markers to show where the location is. The little map to me is saying look for two little hills next to a cliff or mountain and on the larger one on top there is a shaft or burial there. it maybe further up the trail or about half way.

Good luck

minetres

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,
I respectfully disagree, this does not appear to be Spanish or Jesuit to me at all, and is I think MUCH older. I have circled in RED some of the symbols (letters)

now compare to Phoenician letters

I can't say absolutely this is what you have, and I would say Punic rather than Phoenician (can't find a chart to post) which is slightly different. WAS this was found in NM....?
http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/loslunas.html
Oroblanco

 

[SabeSix]

Thanks for the comments Minetress and Oroblanco,
Location: well I can say it's not in New Mexico.

The seven can mean a camp site and it can mean Gold. I think the sharp point of the seven is pointing to the area where the hidden treasure or mine is. I also believe the little map is what the exact area looks like where the treasure is hidden. I have seen too many sevens in places where there was no campsite but for one person and there were Gold storage Vaults. You are very close to that area.

Regards

Minetres

Interesting takes I'll have to go back there and look some more around the area.
One bad thing is that it's on 100 acres of private property but very well hidden by thick high bushes near the creek. Good thing is I know the owner but it's tough to find even from 10 feet away unless your on a horse. Anyway who ever owned the property before went and gathered boulders from the area to put up at the highway entrance where access is blocked with a locked gate. I'm just hoping he didn't move anything with signs on it.

Now that I've gleened a little more from this site I'll have to back there and take a bunch of pictures and try to find the campsite area.

Thanks for the replies

 

[okey dokey]

OB,
I enjoyed the web link. I really got excited at the 7th picture down. It is an obvious ancient head boulder. It goes good with the Punic carvings. I wonder where the man is looking?(:>)
okey dokey

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,
Okey Dokey wrote

I really got excited at the 7th picture down. It is an obvious ancient head boulder. It goes good with the Punic carvings. I wonder where the man is looking?

I know the one you are referring to, and it does look suspicious - however it MIGHT be just a natural stone. Without being able to examine it up close (with a magnifying glass) I can't tell if it is man-altered or natural.

That Spanish 6 foot stone also has a very Egyptian symbol too, I circled it in red as the largest symbol, it is an "Ankh" symbol.

That does not mean Egyptians did it, for Phoenicians used Egyptian symbols rather out of context as "magic" symbols, and conversely Egyptians did not use Phoenician letters. The Spanish were not the only people to have buried vast treasures.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Just a postscript, here are some examples of Phoenician treasures

Phoenician gold diadem from the treasure of Aliseda, 700 BC

Phoenician Gold bracelet from the treasure of Aliseda

Collection of Phoenician gold from the treasure of Carambolo

Your "Spanish" marker may well lead to an ancient Phoenician treasure!
Oroblanco

 

[Old Dog]

Your "Spanish" marker may well lead to an ancient Phoenician treasure!
Oroblanco

That would be so awesome!!

 

[CanadianTrout]

Your "Spanish" marker may well lead to an ancient Phoenician treasure!
Oroblanco

That would be so awesome!!

Can you hike these trails while packing a defibrillator with you? "Clear!" Ker-ZAAAP!
I think I'd need one! Good post Oro!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Afternoon my buddies:

Frankly I am not sure from the photograph that anything but the "'7' is man made. The 'M' thingie is very curious, but I seem to find suggestions of the same type of anomaly nearby.

At first glance it appears very close to the very old style Mexican / Spanish mining claim monument

As for a camping place, ORO and others, you are experienced, if you had gotten within the distance that has been proposed, you would already have selected you camp site for the night.

You wouldn't need, or want, such a marker, especially if in hostile country.

I favor a very old mineral /mine monument.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose de la Mancha wrote

I favor a very old mineral /mine monument.

A distinct possibility, but still think it is MUCH older than Spanish or Mexican. Ancient mines of the Spanish and Mexicans tend to be pretty small affairs and often had no timbering, but Phoenician, Greek and Roman mines were much more like modern American mines of the late 1800's with good timbering, extra air shafts and drainage built in. I would look for a mound of tailings or more than one mound. The entrance might be collapsed or caved, or it might have been blocked off, but a good foot path to the mine should lead right to it and to water. If it is a mine site, look for a symbol of Eshmun, which is very like the device used by doctors today - the caduceus

or a Sun symbol representing Baal Hammon, god of wealth. This might be a spiral rather than what we would think of a Sun, in this case to represent the curled horns of this god.

If it is Phoenician in origin, based on the known Phoenician treasure sites found, I would especially look for a cave or other natural feature that is hidden from view, which would have a large stone (boulder or massive bedrock) to help locate it that IS in plain sight. The entrance would be blocked off if they could not bury the treasure in the cave. Look for a "Tanit" symbol whih is a truncated pyramid with an "eye" over it, which represents Venus and the crescent moon. Like this, though there are variations

I would also keep an eye out for SWAN symbols, a horse or horsehead, and oxhead or even a fish. Any of these symbols would tell you the home city of the owners, the Swan meaning Tyre, the horse or horse head meaning Carthage, the oxhead I can't recall offhand but think Aradus, the fish meaning Sidon. This is only a sample.


Good luck and good hunting, I hope you will keep us posted with your discoveries!
Oroblanco

 

[feather]

Firstly, I'm not about to dispute any of the above postings with reference to your picture as many credible members have responded. Secondly, I'm very new to the whole programme and have very little knowledge to speak of. So, what I have to offer comes directly out of a little book of signs.

7 = Beneath this sign, documents are to be found
The wavy sign almost crossing the 7 = Concealed cave in area ( Because there are 2 humps = ent + exit)
To the right of 7 is a little sign, looks like lollypop = cave entrance + exit joined by tunnel. Be careful of falling stone/s

To the top left of your major sign, are other signs. Unfortunately I am unable to see them clearly but they could have a meaning.

 

[rangler]

Oro Roy,
THANK YOU for the education! So refreshing to see intelligent posts revealing yet
more peices of the puzzle - original first hand data - not published in books.
Thanks again!
I am in your debt sir!
rangler

 

[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigos,

Rangler thank you for the kind words buddy, we sure don't have a consensus as to the meaning and origins of this marker (yet) but those ancient symbols I am sure, predate the Spanish.

All too often us treasure hunters automatically think "Spanish" or "Jesuit" when we find markers, old camps etc when in truth, there were quite a variety of visitors to America centuries or even thousands of years before the Spaniards. There are records of Phoenicians, Norse, Welsh, Irish, Scots, Basques, Celts, Africans, Indians (from India) even possibly Egyptians, Greeks and (accidently) Romans but one group especially overlooked are Arabs. The Arab sea traders ranged quite far afield in the Medieval period and one of the earliest records of a horde of coins being found (in New England) turned out to be Medieval Arabic coins. Many of these visitors left records in the form of inscriptions in stone, and many were likely accidental visits but in some cases these people were not just cast onto a far foreign shore by storms. According to Diodorus Siculus and Aristotle, Punic explorers were obtaining great riches from what can only be America and were keeping it secret. Aristotle expressed his opinion that Carthage owed its wealth to this secret land across the sea. They are known to have hidden some impressive treasures, a few of which have been found as mentioned above.

At the other end of the spectrum, markers are often mistaken for treasure signs when they were really nothing more than boundary markers for property or to record a visit by someone. This subject is difficult to discuss among treasure hunters for there is no general agreement even to the meaning (or existence) of Spanish treasure markers, let alone any others, and what one person sees as a carved symbol another person sees as totally natural forms.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I look forward to hearing how this one develops.
Oroblanco