Their have been at least 5 shrines I am aware of. Most were near a mines entrance, and contained a cross or a statue.Some had verticle cut canopy rocks above the shrines.If you find holes that have been drilled along the top curve of a possible shrine, ,it probably was one.The shrines were usually built between large rocks or a cave. When leaveing a mine area for a peroid of time the shrines were dismantled and hidden.Some had fair sized rooms about 15ft into the shrine tunnel. The miners would use a row of heated rocks at the entrance at night to keep snakes out. Slots were dug under these rocks to hide treasure. Another treasure hideing place was usually below the shrines floor under a nitch in the caves wall used as a knelling candle religous prayer shrine.Spain law required these shrines to be within about 200 varas of the working mines entrance. Large and small mineing operations had these shrines.
Spanish/Jesuit/MexicanMINE SHRINES
- Thread starter ghostdog
- Start date
lamar
Bronze Member
- Aug 30, 2004
- 1,341
- 46
Dear ghostdog;
The *shrines* that you would be referring to are known as "grottoes". Grottoes are an integral part of Roman Catholic worship and as such, grottoes may be seen everywhere, especially in the more traditional Catholic countries, such as Western Europe and Latin America. A grotto may be defined as any natural or manmade cave type of structure, utilized for the express purpose of housing a religious artifact, icon or statue.
Grottoes may be as simple as a niche carved out of a rock face with a small statue or crucifix placed inside, or ample and elaborate in the extreme, such as the Grotto Of The Redemption in Bend Iowa, which is the largest religious grotto in the world.
Grottoes are a very common feature seen at all mine entrances which employed Roman Catholic laborers so it should come as no surprise that a mine would have had a grotto in the immediate vacinity of the mine entrance. Grottoes are not nearly as common a feature in North America as most Roman Catholics have embraced the treatises of Vatican II and as such have disgarded many of the older, more traditional customs, therefore grottoes may be relatively unknown structures to younger Roman Caholics and other Christians.
Grottoes also predate Christianity by at least 3,000 years and early pagan grottoes were the norm in ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and throughout the Middle and Far East. Practically all ancient cultures used grottoes as special places of worship in form or other. The word "grotto" is derived from the classical latin word "Crypta", or the modern latin word "Grupta", which is essentially a crypt. The modern word came into being when Italians discovered a grotto built by the Roman Ceasar Nero, on Palatine mound in the 15th century. The discoverers found the decorations as very unusual and they labelled them as "Grotesque" meaning something that is misshapen or strange looking.
As a general rule, finding a grotto in front of a mine, or immediately inside the main entrance, only stands to reaffirm that the mine in question was in fact worked at one time by Roman Catholic laborers, however due to the continous use of grottoes as informal places of worship since the earliest days of Christianity, it's practically impossible to place a time frame on their construction.
As an aside, I am unaware of any *law*, Spanish or otherwise, requiring that grottoes to be constructed in the vicinity of mines or other places. Grottoes were built by the faithful and pious and as such they built grottoes willingly, just as they do today.
Your friend;
LAMAR
The *shrines* that you would be referring to are known as "grottoes". Grottoes are an integral part of Roman Catholic worship and as such, grottoes may be seen everywhere, especially in the more traditional Catholic countries, such as Western Europe and Latin America. A grotto may be defined as any natural or manmade cave type of structure, utilized for the express purpose of housing a religious artifact, icon or statue.
Grottoes may be as simple as a niche carved out of a rock face with a small statue or crucifix placed inside, or ample and elaborate in the extreme, such as the Grotto Of The Redemption in Bend Iowa, which is the largest religious grotto in the world.
Grottoes are a very common feature seen at all mine entrances which employed Roman Catholic laborers so it should come as no surprise that a mine would have had a grotto in the immediate vacinity of the mine entrance. Grottoes are not nearly as common a feature in North America as most Roman Catholics have embraced the treatises of Vatican II and as such have disgarded many of the older, more traditional customs, therefore grottoes may be relatively unknown structures to younger Roman Caholics and other Christians.
Grottoes also predate Christianity by at least 3,000 years and early pagan grottoes were the norm in ancient Rome, Greece, Egypt and throughout the Middle and Far East. Practically all ancient cultures used grottoes as special places of worship in form or other. The word "grotto" is derived from the classical latin word "Crypta", or the modern latin word "Grupta", which is essentially a crypt. The modern word came into being when Italians discovered a grotto built by the Roman Ceasar Nero, on Palatine mound in the 15th century. The discoverers found the decorations as very unusual and they labelled them as "Grotesque" meaning something that is misshapen or strange looking.
As a general rule, finding a grotto in front of a mine, or immediately inside the main entrance, only stands to reaffirm that the mine in question was in fact worked at one time by Roman Catholic laborers, however due to the continous use of grottoes as informal places of worship since the earliest days of Christianity, it's practically impossible to place a time frame on their construction.
As an aside, I am unaware of any *law*, Spanish or otherwise, requiring that grottoes to be constructed in the vicinity of mines or other places. Grottoes were built by the faithful and pious and as such they built grottoes willingly, just as they do today.
Your friend;
LAMAR
djui5
Bronze Member
lamar
Bronze Member
- Aug 30, 2004
- 1,341
- 46
Dear djui5;
Wikipedia seems to agree with most what I've stated, however there are a few slight inconsistencies with the Wiki descrption and my own, but for the purposes of our discussion it will do quite nicely. The main difference between a shrine and a grotto as they pertain to the Roman Catholic church is that a shrine is blessed and is recognized as a holy structure by higher Church authorities, such as the Holy See or a particular diocese, whereas a grotto is more of a casual type of structure, can be natural or manmade and it's purpose is more along the lines of individual worship.
"Mr. Lamar,A grotto is a place where a man and a women go to have sex, a shrine is a place where persons go to pray before they go do something dangerous like dig further into a mine tunnel."
I am unsure which church has those types of grottoes, but all may rest assured that I've never visited one, nor am I aware of the existence of those types of grottoes.
Your friend;
LAMAR
Wikipedia seems to agree with most what I've stated, however there are a few slight inconsistencies with the Wiki descrption and my own, but for the purposes of our discussion it will do quite nicely. The main difference between a shrine and a grotto as they pertain to the Roman Catholic church is that a shrine is blessed and is recognized as a holy structure by higher Church authorities, such as the Holy See or a particular diocese, whereas a grotto is more of a casual type of structure, can be natural or manmade and it's purpose is more along the lines of individual worship.
"Mr. Lamar,A grotto is a place where a man and a women go to have sex, a shrine is a place where persons go to pray before they go do something dangerous like dig further into a mine tunnel."
I am unsure which church has those types of grottoes, but all may rest assured that I've never visited one, nor am I aware of the existence of those types of grottoes.
Your friend;
LAMAR
lamar
Bronze Member
- Aug 30, 2004
- 1,341
- 46
Dear ghostdog;
You asked me:
"Tell me what is your calling,Priest,Latin scholer,Professer of Catholic theolgy?"
I am none of the above, my friend. In my youth, I once entertained serious notions of joining the preisthood, but I never did. I am well versed in Latin, classical Latin more so than the more popular Vulgate Latin. I also took courses in theological studies as part of my education in the seminary.
Your friend;
LAMAR
You asked me:
"Tell me what is your calling,Priest,Latin scholer,Professer of Catholic theolgy?"
I am none of the above, my friend. In my youth, I once entertained serious notions of joining the preisthood, but I never did. I am well versed in Latin, classical Latin more so than the more popular Vulgate Latin. I also took courses in theological studies as part of my education in the seminary.
Your friend;
LAMAR
Old Dog
Gold Member
Lamar,
Your point would be less obvious if you wore a hat more often.
Your Friend
Thom
Your point would be less obvious if you wore a hat more often.
Your Friend
Thom
desertmoons
Bronze Member
- Apr 16, 2008
- 1,067
- 168
Hey ghostdog, I've a couple of possibilities scoped out for shrines at my site. Hopefully next week i will get out there and up close! Time will tell.
Springfield
Silver Member
Shrines are no big deal near mines in the Southwest. It's a Mexican tradition, not a treasure sign. They're common and take many forms - often a crude niche near the adit/shaft with a small statue, rosary beads or other offering. They are still used today in operating mines with a significent Hispanic workforce. They were established so that the miners could offer prayers for their safety at work. You won't find the offerings at the abandoned workings - the non-Catholic Anglos long ago stole them for souvenirs.
lamar
Bronze Member
- Aug 30, 2004
- 1,341
- 46
Dear springfield;
I know why the grottoes are there and YOU know why the grottoes are there, however try explaining this to some of these so-called *treasure sign experts*, my friend and you will definitely have your work cut out for you. Someone took a simple religious custom, blew it all out of proportion and before you know it, we now have *official* Royal edicts which proclaim that a grotto was to be placed within 200 varas of a mine entrance. Of course, nobody will be able to actually FIND an archived document attesting to this *fact* however people are willing to believe whatever they hear i suppose.
If people would simply put in the time, do the research and STUDY just a little bit, stories like these would never get a foothold and become a part of American lore. The next thing you know, someone will be stating that the jesuits forced all natived to build grottoes in front of every mine and threatened everyone who did not pray in front of it 20 lashes. Wow, just wow.
Your friend;
LAMAR
I know why the grottoes are there and YOU know why the grottoes are there, however try explaining this to some of these so-called *treasure sign experts*, my friend and you will definitely have your work cut out for you. Someone took a simple religious custom, blew it all out of proportion and before you know it, we now have *official* Royal edicts which proclaim that a grotto was to be placed within 200 varas of a mine entrance. Of course, nobody will be able to actually FIND an archived document attesting to this *fact* however people are willing to believe whatever they hear i suppose.
If people would simply put in the time, do the research and STUDY just a little bit, stories like these would never get a foothold and become a part of American lore. The next thing you know, someone will be stating that the jesuits forced all natived to build grottoes in front of every mine and threatened everyone who did not pray in front of it 20 lashes. Wow, just wow.
Your friend;
LAMAR
usernotfound
Sr. Member
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usernotfound
Sr. Member
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John_Arizona
Hero Member
Can you tell me if this is a Mine Shrine or not? Thanks
View attachment 737780
View attachment 737782
View attachment 737783
View attachment 737780
View attachment 737782
View attachment 737783
Shortstack
Silver Member
- Jan 22, 2007
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In your second photo, it appears that the statue is still in the grotto. Could this be a Spanish mine shrine........maybe. Could it be an ancient site dedicated to one of their gods...........also maybe. With all of those human faces carved on the large rock face and the other stones, I'd lean toward the Ancients. I stopped counting faces at the number 16 and there are more.
As to the mine.........many believe that the Spanish were following many Ancients trails to THEIR mining sites and cache sites for recoveries. The Ancients did not try to hide their trails and mine sites, but the Spanish DID. That lead to many modified monuments and sites with the Spanish vandals changing things to their own codes and needs.
EDIT: John Arizona..........I think the Spanish touch might just be those Segundo or Sequarro Cacti in the area that have NO side arms, but just the main central trunk. There's one close to and just to the right of the grotto that has something carved on the side facing the camera. That may be a clue to follow that line of single trunked cacti going up the hill to the left and rear of the rock mount. You can see them in the second photo, too.
As to the mine.........many believe that the Spanish were following many Ancients trails to THEIR mining sites and cache sites for recoveries. The Ancients did not try to hide their trails and mine sites, but the Spanish DID. That lead to many modified monuments and sites with the Spanish vandals changing things to their own codes and needs.
EDIT: John Arizona..........I think the Spanish touch might just be those Segundo or Sequarro Cacti in the area that have NO side arms, but just the main central trunk. There's one close to and just to the right of the grotto that has something carved on the side facing the camera. That may be a clue to follow that line of single trunked cacti going up the hill to the left and rear of the rock mount. You can see them in the second photo, too.
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John_Arizona
Hero Member
Thanks Shortstack.
I did find a lot of signs everywhere around in this vicinity. In some of my other posts on this site, I have posted photos of finding a Horse Head along with Spanish Priests also carved into the rock/sandstone and that's in an area 1000' above this location.
I did find a lot of signs everywhere around in this vicinity. In some of my other posts on this site, I have posted photos of finding a Horse Head along with Spanish Priests also carved into the rock/sandstone and that's in an area 1000' above this location.
Last edited:
desertmoons
Bronze Member
- Apr 16, 2008
- 1,067
- 168
That second picture sure is nice, artistically speaking, specially toward the right side there. It seems like some areas do have an abundance of priests and other religious symbols, others do not.
Well, if not for shadows someone or something was likely on those platforms.
Well, if not for shadows someone or something was likely on those platforms.
John_Arizona
Hero Member
the second photo rock face, is 35 feet tall
John_Arizona
Hero Member
There is some interesting activity on the ground on the right side, where you see the symbols.
I've found a lot of triangles and diamond shapes with marker stones on each corner and a marker stone thats much bigger... in the centers of them with funny looking diagrams with cryllic writing on the ground.
I downloaded a few Spanish Cryllic Alphabets, numbers and letters that resemble what I found on the ground, and also Jesuit Cryllic letters, numbers and letters.
I also found a triangled pile of rock the size of your fist, in another spot and also a square shaped pile of rock about the size of a football.
There was an old sunken in area in the ground that was about 5 feet square between both these piles of rock, below are 3 images describing this.
The very last photo is taken above to above to show the whole area, this is on top of the "Shrine"
View attachment 740125
View attachment 740126
View attachment 740127
View attachment 740128
I've found a lot of triangles and diamond shapes with marker stones on each corner and a marker stone thats much bigger... in the centers of them with funny looking diagrams with cryllic writing on the ground.
I downloaded a few Spanish Cryllic Alphabets, numbers and letters that resemble what I found on the ground, and also Jesuit Cryllic letters, numbers and letters.
I also found a triangled pile of rock the size of your fist, in another spot and also a square shaped pile of rock about the size of a football.
There was an old sunken in area in the ground that was about 5 feet square between both these piles of rock, below are 3 images describing this.
The very last photo is taken above to above to show the whole area, this is on top of the "Shrine"
View attachment 740125
View attachment 740126
View attachment 740127
View attachment 740128
Last edited:
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