Solved? more input needed on old no-name pistol

[dozer dan]

here are the pictures of my pistol. the only pictures i could find to match it is the griswold and gunnison. my pistol is .36 cal. brass frame with a round barrel. there is no name on it. the ser. # is in the 17,000s and stamped two times on the brass, one time on the cylinder, and one time under the barrel assembly. all ser. #s match. the ser #s are erratic as they are not aligned well. the rod is 2 piece construction, in the pictures you can see this. there also appeares to be a blood etched finger print on the underside of the barrel. one person i asked to examin it said he thought he saw a tiny stamping on the cylinder of a crescent moon with a star in it. i however do not see this.
i am grateful for your interest and any info you could provide. sorry about the pic's. im still catchin on. Dan

 

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[cw0909]

i remember this thread, im not a gun expert,looking around yesterday
i found a couple of pieces of info, not sure it will help ID your gun


#1 the cylinder safety pins, yours looks like it might not ever had them
dozer dan cylinder
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/w...ut-needed-old-no-name-pistol.html#post1287684


from cabelas bottom of pg
The safety pins between the chambers of all three 1860 revolvers (arrow) were
absent from the 1851 Confederate Navy. They keep the cylinder from rotating
when the slotted hammer is lowered over one of the pins. These would be easy
to add to the Confederate Navy, and we would make this modification if we
bought the gun.
Cabela's 1851 Confederate Navy .36 Caliber - Gun Reports


#2 a couple of sites with info, on proof marks
Colt Model 1860 Army
Revolver Inspection Marks
by Charles Pate
http://vpnavy01.com/lgdare/Colt_Model_1860_Army_Revolver_Inspection_Marks.pdf
ProofHouse
United States Military Small Arms Inspectors Markings
Colt Serial Numbers
ProofHouse.com
colt Firearm Serial Number Lookup - Year of Manufacture
Colt Firearm Serial Number Lookup - Year of Manufacture

 

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[l.cutler]

It looks very similar to mine. I remember several people mentioning in this post that they have never seen a repro without "black powder only" or where it was made stamped on it. I don't know if this is true or not.

Now a bit of good news, motel reservations have been made for 4/7 and 4/8/12 in Reno
for the gun show. It is said to be the size of 4 football fields. I will be there with the pistol and coming back with an answer or without the pistol. Either way I'll be better off.

What did you learn at the Reno gun show?

 

[Bruce R]

Eli Whitney colt.

 

[ivan salis]

crescent moon with a star * is both a new Orleans city item --look at their police badge ---star in the middle on top with creascent moon on its back so to speak --- the crescent moon standing with the star inside it --is also used by turkey -- because it is a muslim state ..turkey could be making colt 1851 36. cal black powder replica guns

 

[NHBandit]

Just spent a half hour reading this thread from beginning to end. I don't see where the question of a nipple being removed and thread size measured and I don't recall seeing any pictures of the crescent moon marking. Many people have given great advice. Some of which seems to have been ignored. I have handled a lot of guns in my 60 years and I do agree it looks like a repro in many ways. Keep in mind they have been made by many many companies for the past several years in Italy, Spain, and other places as well as the fact that parts may have been swapped around. The likelyhood of nearly all of the experts you sent pictures to ignoring your questions and not responding if it was real doesn't make any sense to me. If any one of those people or companies thought for one second that you had something rare & valuable you can bet they would be ringing your phone off the hook trying to buy it. The simple fact that the majority of your inquiries have gone unanswered tells me what I need to know.

 

[BosnMate]

dozer dan, you brought this thread up yesterday, after telling us that you were taking the gun to a Reno gun show over 4 years ago. What was the verdict at the gun show, where people could actually handle the gun, instead of looking at pictures What did they have to say?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Eli Whitney colt.

?

Whitney made a Navy model (.36 cal) to compete with the Colt Navy. Solid steel "bridged" frame. Neither Colt nor Whintey ever made a brass framed revolver. Eli Whitney Jr. made a run of 1,000 Walker style Colts under license for Colt for a US contract.

 

[dozer dan]

Absolutely nothing. I had high hopes but the wester gun shows dont appreciate old guns. About everything there was modern elk rifles or military or Winchester lever action related and way over priced ammo. Back in the Midwest everybody at the gun show wants to talk guns, out here nobody wants to answer inquiries then make a lowball offer. I have a little fun with it though when I take my Winchester 97 shotgun to a show. They handle it, tell you how worthless and unsafe it is then in the same breath ask what I'd take for it. My reply; oh I don't know, it was made in 1927 so it pretty old and couldn't be worth more'n $50 or so. Then when they reach for their wallet I turn around and walk away with my gun under my arm.

 

[NHBandit]

Again... Alot of people have given you solid advice such as removing a nipple and checking the thread size and you seem to pick and choose what you feel like actually following through with and what to ignore. Unless you did that and simply didn't post what you found. No offense but this could have been solved a long time ago if you wanted it to be but I'm beginning to get the impression from your comments that you are hoping it magically becomes some never seen before Confederate made Civil War pistol worth tens of thousands of dollars. You even mention how much fun it is having dealers lowball you and then walk away. Has it ever occurred to you that you may very well have just a 50 dollar gun ? Here is my last bit of advice on this and then unless you take a minute to respond, I'm done with this subject. If I owned this pistol the man I would be talking to for a definite answer is Rafael Eledge at Shiloh Relics. He's the guy you see on the Antiques Roadshow tv show doing all the appraisals on the Civil War relics and guns. If he tells you what it is you can bet the farm he's probably correct. And if he makes an offer it will be a fair offer based on facts, not guessing games. With that said you do need to be prepared to hear that it's nothing more than a well made, fairly accurate replica. If so it's still a winning situation. SHooting black powder pistols is great fun and you won't have to worry about hurting the value. Go HERE. Shiloh Civil War Relics Main

 

[l.cutler]

All signs point to it being a replica. If you feel strongly about it, have it looked at in hand by a knowledgeable person, then you can solve it once and for all.

 

[BosnMate]

All signs point to it being a replica. If you feel strongly about it, have it looked at in hand by a knowledgeable person, then you can solve it once and for all.

Agree, or a parts gun with both new and used parts, which makes the gun basically worthless to a collector. I don't see any patina on the brass frame. I do see patina on the barrel, but that is easy to fake. If anyone at the gun show thought the gun was an original, they would have shown some interest. By their lack of interest, they are avoiding an argument, and not putting their reputation on the line, making the call one way or another, especially if they feel the gun is questionable. Fake patina? Yes, it's easy. Rust the daylights out of the iron, use harsh chemicals if you are in a hurry. Once rusted, use light oil and a piece of brass to scrape the rust off the iron. Instant patina.

 

[ButtonBidder]

I was looking at this gun on CollectorWeekly and looked at many of the posts here, This won't help at all but as a FYI about standard or metric threads there are also A,B & C class fit for threads the A class fit is a extremely close fit from nut to bolt with a very tight tolerance most often only used by NASA and the likes.