Oroblanco
Gold Member
- Jan 21, 2005
- 7,841
- 9,850
- Detector(s) used
- Tesoro Lobo Supertraq, (95%) Garrett Scorpion (5%)
Greetings,
Is there a "curse" relating to the infamous Lost Dutchman mine and / or the Superstition mountains? The local Pima Indians held the mountains in some respect and even fear, and had a legend of an ancient flood in which people were turned into stone pillars. (Hence the name "Superstition" mountains; to the Spanish the mountains were known as "Espuma" (which means "foam") for the line of limestone in them, which Pima Indians told them had been where the foam from the ancient flood had reached.
There have been all kinds of fantastic tales told about the Superstition mountains, from wild bands of Apache warriors still holding out in the mountains to Aztecs living in caverns, UFOs, dimension-doors and even more incredible reports. There is the strange "coincidences" involved with one of the worst disasters of the Second World War and the famous Roosevelt Dam. Roosevelt Dam was constructed using stone from the Superstitions, and some 22 deaths were involved in the construction of the dam. When the first water came over the overflow was saved, it was used to christen a famous battleship - the USS Arizona. Some 25 years later, the Arizona became the most disastrous loss in the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and more than 1000 men went down with the ship; though many of the damaged US battleships were later raised and repaired, the Arizona remains lying on the bottom of the harbor, where a monument now stands on her structure. Coincidences?
We have all heard of the talk of deaths in the Superstitions too. I have not been able to obtain an exact number of the people who have lost their lives or simply gone missing in those mysterious, brooding and beautiful mountains. By some estimates there are over 600. Here is a partial list of some of the victims of the "curse".
1847-ish A massacre of a group of people occurred in what is today known as "Massacre Field" - the victims were either Mexicans or Pima Indians, caught by Apache warriors.
1870s, exact date unknown - Jacob Weiser, partner of the Dutchman Jacob Waltz, died of wounds received by attacking Apaches after escaping the mountains to a nearby ranch.
1880 - Two soldiers who had shown rich gold ore in Florence went into the Superstitions and disappeared; later their remains were found, with a bullet hole in their skulls. (This may be an incident which occurred in the Four Peaks region in truth)
1884 - Pedro Ortega was found shot dead some thirty feet from the home of Jacob Waltz, dead of shotgun wounds. Waltz told the sheriff that Ortega's partner shot him after "borrowing" Waltz's shotgun, but many believed that Waltz himself had killed Ortega.
1891 - a legend was born the night that Jacob Waltz, the "Dutchman" himself, died.
1892 - the last known death caused by an Apache attack in the Superstitions, Charles Dobie. Any relation to Frank Dobie?
1896 - the first reported beheading in the Superstitions, the victim being Elisha M Reavis (brother to the famous forger James Reavis) who lived the life of a hermit on Iron Mountain and sold garden produce to locals; some referred to Reavis as the "Madman of the mountains".
1910 - The skeletal remains of a woman were found high in a Superstition Mountain cave; gold nuggets were found next to the remains, but no remnant of any kind of clothing!
1931 - Dr. Adolph Ruth was found dead, his skull detached from the body with a 44 caliber hole through it; Ruth had told two prospectors he had possession of a map to the lost gold mine, these men packed Ruth into the mountains and later took his car. The authorities ruled the death "natural causes"!!! Well I guess you would naturally DIE if you are shot through the head with a 44!!!
1934 - The Superstition Mountains claimed the life of Adam Stewart
1936 - Roma O'Hal was hiking in the Superstition mountains, and died from a fall.
1938 - Prospector Guy "Hematite" Frank was found dead in the mountains with a sack of gold at his side. Another "accidental" death?
1948 - Treasure hunter James Cravey, age 62, was found dead in the Superstitions. His body was discovered first, and six months later his skull.
1949 - James Kidd vanished in the Superstitions, never seen again.
1951 - The body of Dr. John Burns of Oregon was found with a bullet hole through him. Even though there were no powder burns and a ballistics expert testified the shot had been from some distance, the coroner's jury ruled the death "accidental" or suicide!
1952 - Joseph Kelly, a native of Ohio, went into the Superstition mountains and vanished. Two California youths, Ross Bley and Charles Harshbarger, also disappeared in the Superstitions that year.
1955 - Charles Massey, hunting in the Superstitions with a 22 rimfire, was found dead, having been shot between the eyes with a heavy caliber bullet. The coroner ruled the death accidental, a result of a ricochet!!!
1956 - Martin Zywotho, a native of New York, was found dead with a bullet hole in his right temple. Although his gun was found beneath the body, the death was ruled a "suicide"!!!
1959 - Benjamin Ferreira killed his friend and partner Stanley Hernandez after they discovered what they thought was gold; the find was actually pyrite, "Fools gold". Ed Piper shot Robert St. Marie in an old-west style shootout after Celeste Marie Jones had hired St. Marie to kill Piper. Just two months after St. Marie was killed, Piper was found dead. An autopsy gave the cause of death as a 'perforated ulcer'. Lavern Rowlee was shot by Ralph Thomas, who was in the mountains on a hiking trip. Rowlee attacked Thomas and in self-defense, shot him.
1960 - Yet another beheaded skull was discovered in the Superstitions, this one with two bullet holes in it. The skull turned out to be the remains of Franz Harrer, a student from Austria. Also this year, the skeletal remains of William Harvey Jr were found, cause of death unknown.
1961 - Some children discovered the skeletal remains of Hilmer Bohen, who had been shot through the head. Walter Mowry's bullet ridden body ws found, the cause of death ruled a "suicide"!!!
1963 - Vance Bacon, a hired man working for Celeste Marie Jones (the woman who had a claim on the TOP of Weaver's Needle) fell to his death from the top of Weaver's Needle. According to some sources, there were rifle shots heard and some indications of foul play.
1964 - The skeletal remains of Jay Clapp were found, but his skull was missing and has never been found. Richard and Robert Kremis were found dead at the bottom of a high cliff. Also an elderly couple were found murdered in an automobile this year.
1970 - Al Morrow, long-term prospector, was killed when a boulder fell on him in the tunnel he was excavating.
1973 - Charles Lewing shot Ladislas Guerrero in self defense, at the Robert 'Crazy Jake' Jacobs camp site.
1976 - Howard Polling was killed by a gunshot while prospecting in the Superstitions.
1977 - Dennis Brown died from a gunshot wound.
1978 - Manuel Valdez was murdered.
1980 - The skeletal remains of Rick Fenning were discovered.
1984 - Walt Gassler, life-long searcher for the Lost Dutchman mine, was found dead in the Superstitions. In his pack was found gold ore identical to that from under the death bed of Jacob Waltz.
More than 100,000 people have searched for the infamous Lost Dutchman mine or legendary Peralta mines in the Superstition Mountains, and over 300 have claimed to have found it. So you decide, is there a curse?
Oroblanco
"There are stranger things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Shakespeare
Is there a "curse" relating to the infamous Lost Dutchman mine and / or the Superstition mountains? The local Pima Indians held the mountains in some respect and even fear, and had a legend of an ancient flood in which people were turned into stone pillars. (Hence the name "Superstition" mountains; to the Spanish the mountains were known as "Espuma" (which means "foam") for the line of limestone in them, which Pima Indians told them had been where the foam from the ancient flood had reached.
There have been all kinds of fantastic tales told about the Superstition mountains, from wild bands of Apache warriors still holding out in the mountains to Aztecs living in caverns, UFOs, dimension-doors and even more incredible reports. There is the strange "coincidences" involved with one of the worst disasters of the Second World War and the famous Roosevelt Dam. Roosevelt Dam was constructed using stone from the Superstitions, and some 22 deaths were involved in the construction of the dam. When the first water came over the overflow was saved, it was used to christen a famous battleship - the USS Arizona. Some 25 years later, the Arizona became the most disastrous loss in the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and more than 1000 men went down with the ship; though many of the damaged US battleships were later raised and repaired, the Arizona remains lying on the bottom of the harbor, where a monument now stands on her structure. Coincidences?
We have all heard of the talk of deaths in the Superstitions too. I have not been able to obtain an exact number of the people who have lost their lives or simply gone missing in those mysterious, brooding and beautiful mountains. By some estimates there are over 600. Here is a partial list of some of the victims of the "curse".
1847-ish A massacre of a group of people occurred in what is today known as "Massacre Field" - the victims were either Mexicans or Pima Indians, caught by Apache warriors.
1870s, exact date unknown - Jacob Weiser, partner of the Dutchman Jacob Waltz, died of wounds received by attacking Apaches after escaping the mountains to a nearby ranch.
1880 - Two soldiers who had shown rich gold ore in Florence went into the Superstitions and disappeared; later their remains were found, with a bullet hole in their skulls. (This may be an incident which occurred in the Four Peaks region in truth)
1884 - Pedro Ortega was found shot dead some thirty feet from the home of Jacob Waltz, dead of shotgun wounds. Waltz told the sheriff that Ortega's partner shot him after "borrowing" Waltz's shotgun, but many believed that Waltz himself had killed Ortega.
1891 - a legend was born the night that Jacob Waltz, the "Dutchman" himself, died.
1892 - the last known death caused by an Apache attack in the Superstitions, Charles Dobie. Any relation to Frank Dobie?
1896 - the first reported beheading in the Superstitions, the victim being Elisha M Reavis (brother to the famous forger James Reavis) who lived the life of a hermit on Iron Mountain and sold garden produce to locals; some referred to Reavis as the "Madman of the mountains".
1910 - The skeletal remains of a woman were found high in a Superstition Mountain cave; gold nuggets were found next to the remains, but no remnant of any kind of clothing!
1931 - Dr. Adolph Ruth was found dead, his skull detached from the body with a 44 caliber hole through it; Ruth had told two prospectors he had possession of a map to the lost gold mine, these men packed Ruth into the mountains and later took his car. The authorities ruled the death "natural causes"!!! Well I guess you would naturally DIE if you are shot through the head with a 44!!!
1934 - The Superstition Mountains claimed the life of Adam Stewart
1936 - Roma O'Hal was hiking in the Superstition mountains, and died from a fall.
1938 - Prospector Guy "Hematite" Frank was found dead in the mountains with a sack of gold at his side. Another "accidental" death?
1948 - Treasure hunter James Cravey, age 62, was found dead in the Superstitions. His body was discovered first, and six months later his skull.
1949 - James Kidd vanished in the Superstitions, never seen again.
1951 - The body of Dr. John Burns of Oregon was found with a bullet hole through him. Even though there were no powder burns and a ballistics expert testified the shot had been from some distance, the coroner's jury ruled the death "accidental" or suicide!
1952 - Joseph Kelly, a native of Ohio, went into the Superstition mountains and vanished. Two California youths, Ross Bley and Charles Harshbarger, also disappeared in the Superstitions that year.
1955 - Charles Massey, hunting in the Superstitions with a 22 rimfire, was found dead, having been shot between the eyes with a heavy caliber bullet. The coroner ruled the death accidental, a result of a ricochet!!!
1956 - Martin Zywotho, a native of New York, was found dead with a bullet hole in his right temple. Although his gun was found beneath the body, the death was ruled a "suicide"!!!
1959 - Benjamin Ferreira killed his friend and partner Stanley Hernandez after they discovered what they thought was gold; the find was actually pyrite, "Fools gold". Ed Piper shot Robert St. Marie in an old-west style shootout after Celeste Marie Jones had hired St. Marie to kill Piper. Just two months after St. Marie was killed, Piper was found dead. An autopsy gave the cause of death as a 'perforated ulcer'. Lavern Rowlee was shot by Ralph Thomas, who was in the mountains on a hiking trip. Rowlee attacked Thomas and in self-defense, shot him.
1960 - Yet another beheaded skull was discovered in the Superstitions, this one with two bullet holes in it. The skull turned out to be the remains of Franz Harrer, a student from Austria. Also this year, the skeletal remains of William Harvey Jr were found, cause of death unknown.
1961 - Some children discovered the skeletal remains of Hilmer Bohen, who had been shot through the head. Walter Mowry's bullet ridden body ws found, the cause of death ruled a "suicide"!!!
1963 - Vance Bacon, a hired man working for Celeste Marie Jones (the woman who had a claim on the TOP of Weaver's Needle) fell to his death from the top of Weaver's Needle. According to some sources, there were rifle shots heard and some indications of foul play.
1964 - The skeletal remains of Jay Clapp were found, but his skull was missing and has never been found. Richard and Robert Kremis were found dead at the bottom of a high cliff. Also an elderly couple were found murdered in an automobile this year.
1970 - Al Morrow, long-term prospector, was killed when a boulder fell on him in the tunnel he was excavating.
1973 - Charles Lewing shot Ladislas Guerrero in self defense, at the Robert 'Crazy Jake' Jacobs camp site.
1976 - Howard Polling was killed by a gunshot while prospecting in the Superstitions.
1977 - Dennis Brown died from a gunshot wound.
1978 - Manuel Valdez was murdered.
1980 - The skeletal remains of Rick Fenning were discovered.
1984 - Walt Gassler, life-long searcher for the Lost Dutchman mine, was found dead in the Superstitions. In his pack was found gold ore identical to that from under the death bed of Jacob Waltz.
More than 100,000 people have searched for the infamous Lost Dutchman mine or legendary Peralta mines in the Superstition Mountains, and over 300 have claimed to have found it. So you decide, is there a curse?
Oroblanco
"There are stranger things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Shakespeare
am i a spirit still alive after death ??/ is this what it is me ,he ask ..." he puts his spirit in my hands and waits for my reply ..
Now as to some level of 'psychic' detection involved in finding lost treasures or lost mines, that is a different matter - if you get that 'funny feeling' to dig in a particular spot, what harm is there in looking? Amerindian legends are another ballpark entirely - most date to a time when the people believed in magic etc so it is hard to extract the truth from the mythical wrappings. Most myths are based on facts, - I think we have mentioned before the "mythical" animals like unicorns etc which were really the result of garbled translations in ancient times. It would be interesting to see a careful study done on some of the Amerindian legends, to see the grains of truth hidden in fantastical additions.
