Lost Dutchman and the Superstitions, Cursed?

Do you believe that the Lost Dutchman Mine and/or the Superstition Mountains are cursed?


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Oroblanco

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Greetings,

Is there a "curse" relating to the infamous Lost Dutchman mine and / or the Superstition mountains? The local Pima Indians held the mountains in some respect and even fear, and had a legend of an ancient flood in which people were turned into stone pillars. (Hence the name "Superstition" mountains; to the Spanish the mountains were known as "Espuma" (which means "foam") for the line of limestone in them, which Pima Indians told them had been where the foam from the ancient flood had reached.

There have been all kinds of fantastic tales told about the Superstition mountains, from wild bands of Apache warriors still holding out in the mountains to Aztecs living in caverns, UFOs, dimension-doors and even more incredible reports. There is the strange "coincidences" involved with one of the worst disasters of the Second World War and the famous Roosevelt Dam. Roosevelt Dam was constructed using stone from the Superstitions, and some 22 deaths were involved in the construction of the dam. When the first water came over the overflow was saved, it was used to christen a famous battleship - the USS Arizona. Some 25 years later, the Arizona became the most disastrous loss in the Japanese surprise attack on Pearl Harbor and more than 1000 men went down with the ship; though many of the damaged US battleships were later raised and repaired, the Arizona remains lying on the bottom of the harbor, where a monument now stands on her structure. Coincidences?

We have all heard of the talk of deaths in the Superstitions too. I have not been able to obtain an exact number of the people who have lost their lives or simply gone missing in those mysterious, brooding and beautiful mountains. By some estimates there are over 600. Here is a partial list of some of the victims of the "curse".

1847-ish A massacre of a group of people occurred in what is today known as "Massacre Field" - the victims were either Mexicans or Pima Indians, caught by Apache warriors.

1870s, exact date unknown - Jacob Weiser, partner of the Dutchman Jacob Waltz, died of wounds received by attacking Apaches after escaping the mountains to a nearby ranch.

1880 - Two soldiers who had shown rich gold ore in Florence went into the Superstitions and disappeared; later their remains were found, with a bullet hole in their skulls. (This may be an incident which occurred in the Four Peaks region in truth)

1884 - Pedro Ortega was found shot dead some thirty feet from the home of Jacob Waltz, dead of shotgun wounds. Waltz told the sheriff that Ortega's partner shot him after "borrowing" Waltz's shotgun, but many believed that Waltz himself had killed Ortega.

1891 - a legend was born the night that Jacob Waltz, the "Dutchman" himself, died.

1892 - the last known death caused by an Apache attack in the Superstitions, Charles Dobie. Any relation to Frank Dobie?

1896 - the first reported beheading in the Superstitions, the victim being Elisha M Reavis (brother to the famous forger James Reavis) who lived the life of a hermit on Iron Mountain and sold garden produce to locals; some referred to Reavis as the "Madman of the mountains".

1910 - The skeletal remains of a woman were found high in a Superstition Mountain cave; gold nuggets were found next to the remains, but no remnant of any kind of clothing!

1931 - Dr. Adolph Ruth was found dead, his skull detached from the body with a 44 caliber hole through it; Ruth had told two prospectors he had possession of a map to the lost gold mine, these men packed Ruth into the mountains and later took his car. The authorities ruled the death "natural causes"!!! Well I guess you would naturally DIE if you are shot through the head with a 44!!!

1934 - The Superstition Mountains claimed the life of Adam Stewart

1936 - Roma O'Hal was hiking in the Superstition mountains, and died from a fall.

1938 - Prospector Guy "Hematite" Frank was found dead in the mountains with a sack of gold at his side. Another "accidental" death?

1948 - Treasure hunter James Cravey, age 62, was found dead in the Superstitions. His body was discovered first, and six months later his skull.

1949 - James Kidd vanished in the Superstitions, never seen again.

1951 - The body of Dr. John Burns of Oregon was found with a bullet hole through him. Even though there were no powder burns and a ballistics expert testified the shot had been from some distance, the coroner's jury ruled the death "accidental" or suicide!

1952 - Joseph Kelly, a native of Ohio, went into the Superstition mountains and vanished. Two California youths, Ross Bley and Charles Harshbarger, also disappeared in the Superstitions that year.

1955 - Charles Massey, hunting in the Superstitions with a 22 rimfire, was found dead, having been shot between the eyes with a heavy caliber bullet. The coroner ruled the death accidental, a result of a ricochet!!!

1956 - Martin Zywotho, a native of New York, was found dead with a bullet hole in his right temple. Although his gun was found beneath the body, the death was ruled a "suicide"!!!

1959 - Benjamin Ferreira killed his friend and partner Stanley Hernandez after they discovered what they thought was gold; the find was actually pyrite, "Fools gold". Ed Piper shot Robert St. Marie in an old-west style shootout after Celeste Marie Jones had hired St. Marie to kill Piper. Just two months after St. Marie was killed, Piper was found dead. An autopsy gave the cause of death as a 'perforated ulcer'. Lavern Rowlee was shot by Ralph Thomas, who was in the mountains on a hiking trip. Rowlee attacked Thomas and in self-defense, shot him.

1960 - Yet another beheaded skull was discovered in the Superstitions, this one with two bullet holes in it. The skull turned out to be the remains of Franz Harrer, a student from Austria. Also this year, the skeletal remains of William Harvey Jr were found, cause of death unknown.

1961 - Some children discovered the skeletal remains of Hilmer Bohen, who had been shot through the head. Walter Mowry's bullet ridden body ws found, the cause of death ruled a "suicide"!!!

1963 - Vance Bacon, a hired man working for Celeste Marie Jones (the woman who had a claim on the TOP of Weaver's Needle) fell to his death from the top of Weaver's Needle. According to some sources, there were rifle shots heard and some indications of foul play.

1964 - The skeletal remains of Jay Clapp were found, but his skull was missing and has never been found. Richard and Robert Kremis were found dead at the bottom of a high cliff. Also an elderly couple were found murdered in an automobile this year.

1970 - Al Morrow, long-term prospector, was killed when a boulder fell on him in the tunnel he was excavating.

1973 - Charles Lewing shot Ladislas Guerrero in self defense, at the Robert 'Crazy Jake' Jacobs camp site.

1976 - Howard Polling was killed by a gunshot while prospecting in the Superstitions.

1977 - Dennis Brown died from a gunshot wound.

1978 - Manuel Valdez was murdered.

1980 - The skeletal remains of Rick Fenning were discovered.

1984 - Walt Gassler, life-long searcher for the Lost Dutchman mine, was found dead in the Superstitions. In his pack was found gold ore identical to that from under the death bed of Jacob Waltz.

More than 100,000 people have searched for the infamous Lost Dutchman mine or legendary Peralta mines in the Superstition Mountains, and over 300 have claimed to have found it. So you decide, is there a curse?

Oroblanco

"There are stranger things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." --Shakespeare
 

i can say the grave site of what i beleave is the nephew site is not the only bones we found !

i got to say i beleave in things greater than our known world .as a medium and a telapath and i only knew the spirit as he spoke his name Kid ... i did not know he was james kidd...untill you wrote his name here in this post ! his spirit was confused and at one point he wanted to show me where he was and after a short walk in one direction he changed his mind maybe in fear of what would happen to me ... his spirit vanished and i felt he was near the hole time i was there in that area ...this mans remains i beleave IMHO are in the tunnle ....we located across from the stone house ..

i can not say what killed him only that he did not see it comeing and has no idea how he died other than knowing he is dead ....when i try to picture his bones in my vissions i see shape rocks and arrow heads or spear heads . make of that what you will thats what i see in my minds eye ... a trap in the tunnle or something like that or a fall . i can not say ... but his bones are not in the sun light .... if he has talk to me once .. he will come back again .. it often happens like this to me ..

he will realize that few can see or hear him and when i return he will go nuts trying to talk to me knowing he may not get the chance again for a long time ....

as for a fall my brother and i were walking down a wash and he moved some brush out of the way of his path and stoped just before stepping off a 60ft stright drop . you could not see it untill you were right there . to everyone slow down take your time . watch around you and be safe.. never panick ... always think about what you are doing .....

as for your list i thank you for shareing with us ....i have seen a few of these spirits so far ....

but many more that you have not listed here .....from the very day i saw what i saw in 1979 i have seen and heard the cries and the pain of spirits there and in that area ..

in time i started to name them and count them and the numbers were to many to count now days i taste the cries in my soul hears them and their pain and their past .

i guess the ones that move me most our those of the old ones . they had a life of beauty and nature only to find pain and death had taken it from them ....some stand and look at me and say nothing only watch and other try to talk to me . and some hold to me and cry and ask for help . some only want to touch my spirit and see if i am real and to know they have not been forgoten ....

i cant talk to you any more now ......yes effects me greatly who would i be if it did not ?

i hear the tunder gods and i know them , they are real and they live there they want to reast yet time has taken the balance from there home land ......you dont want to know and see what i do .....i die with every soul and spirit i see and sence , i feel what they feel what meaning dose life have when you taste so much death time after time ...?

you made this list and i could only thank you for the letters of the words for to me they have a far greater deepth beyond the world you see here beyond the letters . beyond the pain if you can see threw it or past it . a place of beauty and of life lost before the death . before what is now .. baccck when. great chiffs talk and dance and see into my eyes some look threw me some look past . some talk to me . some only cry some yell into the sky and call for a river of blood some wade threw it now ...

i dont know why i am telling you this i dont even know if you can under stand what i am saying now .. as it was will it be again some day .a chiff with a lighting bolt on his face holds my hand and ask me " is this real or is this a dream,,...??? am i a spirit still alive after death ??/ is this what it is me ,he ask ..." he puts his spirit in my hands and waits for my reply ..

he looks at me as to see my speak to him and he looks into my eyes and he knows what i am thinking as i looking into his past and the great days of his life lost not bloody wars and death , but vast families and love ones . of tribe .....i dont think i am here for the same reason most of you are ...

i am there because they ask me to come to the mt's .. they want me to be there for them ....

they ask of me ... and i know why i i can not refuse them for i respect them for who they are not what they were long ago . for what they still are ...

the smoke changes as it passes into their heavens ...weathers change . tribes live forever.......

this is why ...

i dont reach out for the wealth and the glory , i reach out for the will to know them and who they are and what they were ...
to taste their past and life and help them if they ask it of me ....

there is far more you do not know of my kind ..

my path is alread there . my place beside the great chiff 's is welcome .....

what is one more or less ?????
 

I believe the "curse" of the LDM is all the death caused from looking for it. Once the LDM is found, then the "curse" should (hopefully) end....

"The color of gold comes from the blood spilled over it; Silver, of tears wept."
 

there is no curse just someone that anit hitting on all 8 cylinders
 

If all the deaths and mysterious disappearances were due to a murderous madman living in the hills, he or she must have one tremendous long life span.

Once the LDM is found, then the "curse" should (hopefully) end....

Hmm, well that didn't seem to work out well for those who claimed to have found it - look at what happened to Joe Deering for instance or Chuning or Gassler! Finding it might be the last thing one ever does!!!

Oroblanco
 

"curse" , frist you got to define what type of "curse" you are talking about , i gather by the replies that most do not know there are in fact many types of called "curses" . with a nick name like the witch of Tazz i know a little about "curses" LOL

frist off there are dirrected and indirrected "curses"

a dirrect "curse" is from one person to another person .or one person dirrected to a given group of people or even animals , " so shell your sheep die in the feilds " for exsample ....

those are belated "curses" often takeing place over a given time and they fade away in most cases ....unless they the caster prolongs them ...

there is a secound more common type a indirrected "curse" ...in this case it is in all respect a self in powerd "curse" ....you say what is that mean ... often this type of "curse" is to given place or area or even a race of people ...but unlike the dirrected it can maintain it self after it is born .. much the way you see here in the case of the LDM .. it lives in the souls of our beings / those that are willing to open their minds to the clues often fall pray to the nature of the given "curse" ...

sometimes a "curse" can be a given state off mind why in the given area or related to legend or objects with in the area . two i note so far in the LDM legend is the bells . i hear them in the area often yet they are not of this world and i know this at the time ...

the other related forces are those of the dead , those spirits liveing and those energys left from their past and their belongings .. you must frist define spirit from gost ... a spirit is a liveing being yet not of are deminsion yet of this world and must relate to this deminsion by way of life forces or energys linked to this world and deminsion ...

for exsample ..here is a indain chiff spirit he can be seen by few yet those few are open to him and know he is there when most can not . yet in rare cases as mine .. i hear see sence and taste and smell both deminsions . not in the same respect as most would belive but yes , liveing in and out as we call it ...

a shadow walker shape shifter shaman...

back to the topic at hand ..

we become hyper sencetive to forces and energys around us . it has nothing to do with being nuts or crazy or and such BS ,... yet often this type of energys can over power a person makeing them react in many diffrent ways .. they may act crazy or nuts in some cases . it may even be dirrected to the given area .. as in the LDM case ...

so but not all "curse" live in the subconscious mind or being within ....

after saying that i can only say in 1999 nov 5th my house fire took 3700 rare books , and one of the biggest unknown private libaryies on the here after and beyond in the northeast part of NY state ... so i base my ideas on more than my own judgements ...

now back to subconscious mind and being , like the spirit and the gost they share the forces between them often passing from one to another deminsion . yet we must under stand they relate diffrently to these things than we do ... the mind is open to the sences and the body reacts to the mind . in this manner we react to our sences and what causes our sences to react . yes a open loop if you may between our sences and the forces or "curse" in the case of the topic at hand ... this is why often some people react diffrent to forces or "curses" than others do . they maybe more open minded and i dont say they in jest .. it can be a matter of their upbring or their faiths .or their education . not as in schooling as much as wisdom or training or conditioning to beleave something ...

we could go for days on this topic and most will still not under stand even the basics yet a few of you may very will under stand this topic and its theories ...

the point is , there is a "curse" at play here and its not just any "curse" , in fact it is a multi plan - sublevel "curse" ..... i say multi plan because it is cast and grown out side of its own deminsion and is able to cast its forces in many dirrections . what that means is a person that goes to that area can die years later from related forces ... as well those around that person can also be effected .. even people walking into the area can cast the forces like a host with a common cold yet this is not common and not a cold ... it can be deadly .... beleave it or not ...

some on the other hand express a being that expel or even extract the force from the area . they become energized if you will ! much like my self but i can control it at many levels and stages ...

and most can not at the levels and stages that are at play here in the LDM related "curse" areas ...

and yes you are some what right in most cases they are in fact given objects or areas that play key rolls in the "curse" as well as its forces and how it effects those that come in contact to it', or its often primitive principals . dont misunder stand that statement primitive only relates to the nature of most "curse" in respect to hate or anger or betrayl ......and principals means the basic that you your self come in contact with not ruleing out the unseen forces behind a given "curse" or sub object of a "curse" ...

its one of the reason i did nt distrub the nephew site . i do not want to enfect my sences with unknown energy that could change that area or the way i sence it ...in some cases the person can be a switch and to touch an object can change their cobtrol levels or how they react at the time as well as changeing their state of mind and self control ....

so we are in fact relateing to a few levels and diffrent stages of one "curse" yet each person that has died in that area has his or her own energys and there could be evil energys as well as other lesser or greater "curses " at play ...

my point . the LDM pity it self is very still and safe to me ,yet the tunnle area is over powering with energys .... i can walk up and touch the rock at the nephew site and see his energys yet walk 20 ft away and sence jesuits , i see them walking around like spirits and gost often when keyed up !

and for those that think gost and spirits are the same things , i can only say read a few thousand books and you will under stand they are not the same . and are at diffrent level of engery and states of being . a gost is like a peice of film a negative if you may . how clear a gost is to the eye can relate to two given factors . one is the seer open to the wisdom of the engerys at play and how strong were the engerys when the were case into play . . let me explan . you see a gost it walks across the room and turns and smiles at you and vanishes . for one this could be a spirit if it relates to you dirrectly yet often like a peice of film the gost will repete the same steps over and over again when the conditions are just right ...

much like what traped sound dose , . traped sound is recorded in the woods of a older house and when the conditions are just right , they are relest or play back .like a recording . often being one word stated in a forceful manner or with emotions ..

a spirit can relate to you ...unlike a gost it has a liveing being yet few can reach the level to relate between us and them ... and few can cast the engerys and controll the engerys to impower a gost negative to recall its spirit back to the given place and time ... ..

we often hear them speaking what sounds like odd destored wording yet it can often be just that a matter of time delay .. and or even the fact those gost or spirits may not speak the same way as we do ...

so IMHO is there a "curse" in the ldm legend Yes ! is there a "curse" in the MT's Yes ! is there more than one "curse" out there Yes Yes yes .... !!!!! even thousands of them in that area ....

many will never be solved . some will be .. let a reason for a "curse" be solved and the "curse" will fade away i time or stop feeding it self or letting others feed it ...

often evil spirits find these engerys and feed off them like a beast feed on the meet of the dead ... returning when new engerys come into the mt's walking in our own souls ...

think about what i just stated .. you could be the next meal ....

those that know very little about "curse" and such things can feed them far more than those that are wise in these matters ...

and vise versa ...

only the very skilled should relate to these topics dirrectly ...

"curse" thats a big word seeings how i just barely related to the topic . it is vast and there is far more to it than i could teach you all at one time here ... it would take years and a life time to even fully under stand its levels and values and stages yet each person reacts with their own engerys to these matters so there is no set guide line the guide lines are always moveing and fadeing in and out and some door ways are there one min and gone the next ...


as i stated you dont want to know what i know ...

"curse" are real , and its real in this case ...
 

i think someone watchs too much tv shape shift ????????? is atlantics on a ufo , no wonder noboby takes indians serioursy . there is the same amout of prove that curses , and i found that , as i was born under a lucky star,back to the start you find the mine or all the mines if so wheres the proof ,is this why there is so many books for sale, but no mines uncorved just a thought
 

i am a recluse i dont have a phone or radio or computer in my house up untill i was blinded in 1999 so i went 17 years with out them an i dont like them any more today than i did than . but this is my girlfriends home and thats her choice not mine . and spiritiaulisum has been around longer than any race has ..... do some reading before makeing a statement like that .. it could change your insight into something you know little about ...if you think indains are dum you are a total fool ! just because they under stand simple life and death and the beyond dose not make them dum ...

diffrent yes ...dum no, just because they dont agree with the white mans ways dose not make them dum at all ...

what makes you think they dont under stand white man ways ?
maybe they under stand more than you think they do ...

as far as the lost mines , what fun would it be if there were out in the open !lol

shape shifters ,,,, do you really know anything beyond what a TV has told you ?

if so you would have took note of my family name before you said anything like that statement to me directly ...

do some reading on shape shifters . start with the one of earlyist most documented types of shape shifter the wearwolf .. go to one of its frist legends in Lawton shire in old england ... it was related to the family of Lawton one of the 6 oldest family bloodlines in england and they still wear the rampted wolf on their family creast today ....i know this for a fact because this is my family bloodline .. my surname name is Lawton
 

Greetings,

Blindbowman wrote: as far as the lost mines , what fun would it be if there were out in the open !lol

Indeed, the very heart of the matter - and what sells books and magazines galore. There have been hundreds of people who have claimed to have found the LDM, yet many un-proven. There are lost mines, which are found - such as Tayopa, Breyfogle's ledge, or Goler's placer gold, who bothers to search for them today?

Shape-shifting? Blindbowman sometimes it is hard to tell when you are just kidding! ;D ;) :D Now as to some level of 'psychic' detection involved in finding lost treasures or lost mines, that is a different matter - if you get that 'funny feeling' to dig in a particular spot, what harm is there in looking? Amerindian legends are another ballpark entirely - most date to a time when the people believed in magic etc so it is hard to extract the truth from the mythical wrappings. Most myths are based on facts, - I think we have mentioned before the "mythical" animals like unicorns etc which were really the result of garbled translations in ancient times. It would be interesting to see a careful study done on some of the Amerindian legends, to see the grains of truth hidden in fantastical additions.
Oroblanco
 

you may under stand what shape shifting is . a state of mind and being a subconscous awearness of the body and mind, maybe a state of self hypnosis orself medatational hypnosis, no matter how one reaches the level and what level they meet becomes related to their own control or lack of it ...conditioning of the mind and being to relate to all levels of creation beyond our own deminsions.... this dose make me a joke or those that beleave in shape shifting ... what ever we are is dirrectly linked to our state of mind and ablity to control how others see us yet how we see and control our selfs is far more a matter of our sences and our ablity to relate to the environments and conditions around us .. can you set still for days with out moveing can you stand still and others walk around you with out seeing you . can you become the rock or the tree . i researched chi in red china i know far more than the joke "I am the rock" lol
it is a joke thousands of years old .

can you become the environment around you ?

can you relate to a given object or area , sence what it is there and what it is ,and what forces it has with in it ?


can you become your sence and depart your own being from its safe home within you / for a unknow safity within your own being . a liveing spirit beyond your human shell ...

can you step beyond your self ...

and still relate to the reality you are stuck here as a human , to learn what creation is and who you are and what you can become .. we our all godlings , if you wish to only look into the mirror and be the reflection of your self than that is your choice is it not ! i chose to step beyond , in deminsions that are not our safe earth ...

insight at a sub celllar level , a teleconic , tele static, tele pathic level with millions of stages . and a freedom few will ever under stand or know ...

dose it make me crazy ...NO just diffrent ...

i was blind .my sences are hyperphysical and hypersensitive. to walk into the darkness and try to under stand it and know you have no other path before you is beyond words . yet to see again and walk in a world and a deminsion you had all but dismissed as lost ,and to see what you faced from both sides dose something to the human soul and being within ...

i watched my live vanish into the darkness and my will and being over came my fear and sorrows and i walked out on my own . it took me 3 months to wonder if i could ever see again ... after the patches came off . i had nothing clear and pain that would make most want death by their own hand , yet i over come these evil spirits within me and cast them out .. and 3 years of learning to walk and talk again totally tortured me


you can all set there and lol at what i say here and thats all ok .. because i know whats in the darkness , i under stand what fear is and why we hold tight to this deminsion . why we fail to try to under stand the unkowns . and why we fear our selfs most ...
i know what is within me , a being , this world and the human i am typeing the words you read are because i am within . and each of us are beings face it or not at what ever level you feel safe at .. i face it and i am no longer held to anyone level or stage ..


yes the curse is real .. if you are in this deminsion or the next ... can it have and effect on you yes will it , that is a matter of who and what you are when you come in contact with it ...?

hahahahahh he thinks he is a shape shifter hahahhaha .....

i can only say to that bewear of what you do not under stand ,

be as they are ... in AW
 

HI Bowman no problem on what you are saying, perhaps in your choice of words, but in context, none.

Having spent over 10 years in the intensive study of the so-called Para-normal, I understand what you are saying.

Incidentally, hypnosis, both self and remotely induced, played an important part in separating the various states and abilities.

Tropical Tramp
 

Greetings Blindbowman and everyone,

Blindbowman wrote: you may under stand what shape shifting is . a state of mind and being a subconscous awearness of the body and mind, maybe a state of self hypnosis orself medatational hypnosis, ...<snip>

Well that is quite a different definition of the term "shape-shifter" - many folks take that term literally, that is like one sees in science-fiction movies or fantasy, where something changes shape literally into another shape. You are talking about a mental exercise, not literal shape-shifting. A mental exercise is hardly a joke.

can you become the environment around you ?

No.

can you relate to a given object or area , sence what it is there and what it is ,and what forces it has with in it ?

In a limited way, yes.

can you become your sence and depart your own being from its safe home within you / for a unknow safity within your own being . a liveing spirit beyond your human shell ...


No. However Military experiments with remote sensing actually worked to a degree, but the results were often difficult to prove or disprove. According to their tests, all humans have this ability to a certain degree.

can you step beyond your self ...

and still relate to the reality you are stuck here as a human , to learn what creation is and who you are and what you can become .


Yes and no - in the sense of looking ahead, of putting things into perspective, yes; in literally stepping out of self no.

dose it make me crazy NO just different

I agree with you, NO, not "crazy" just a different philosophy and outlook.

you can all set there and lol at what i say here...<snip>

A good sense of humor is a strong pre-requisite for a happy life, if we cannot laugh together we cannot get along together. I think all of us have gotten a laugh from someone over what we post, so long as it is good-natured there should be no offense.

Oroblanco

"It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames."-- Harry Hill
 

i ask my self what do you think of that self answers thats cool . what you think i say i under stand it but is he talking to me or you !?
 

Blindbowman wrote: i ask my self what do you think of that self answers thats cool .

:D ;D ;)

I see that you DO have a good sense of humor! Good luck and good hunting to you my friend, I hope you find the treasure that you seek. I hope you get a few laughs from these quotes...
Oroblanco

"A man's got to believe in something. I believe I'll have another drink." --WC Fields

"Denial ain't just a river in Egypt."--Mark Twain

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is just putting on its shoes." --Mark Twain

"The difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."--ibid
 

LOL i have to have a good sense of humor, the cost of proveing what i saw in 1979 is now at $24,000.00 ..,,, "what being right cost a man can only be judged by his own will to know "...to leave this reality with unanswerd question is to never know it's perfection"

threw the years there has been some real crazy nut cases out there lost . whats one more LOL ...

" i am enjoying the play ground and i may never grow up but i will not stop learning "

it is a hot day and the sun beats down and i set on a large rock to catch my breath , dusty and weak from the walk up this awfull rough steepend mt .where few have gone . to see what few can under stand or even care to see but the life & love i taste is all mine and the eyes & the heart cry out with freedom to be my self threw all of time's many paths ...i can only hope the path never ends . up or down the mt is only a matter of dirrections, yet my own will carries me is always from within ! as i stand up to face the path that is always fadeing away before me ,I will to create a path yet unknown !"


God has only gaven me two hands ,yet my will to know and under stand all of creation is my own !
 

Peeps

??????



LOST DUTCHMAN


"Tom McDonald used photography to blow the Lost Dutchman Mine myth to hell a few years ago, and it is unfortunate that he did not publish this entire record with all of the wonderful photographs in book form. Tom is a total disbeliever of the Lost Dutchman myth, as am I, and to prove to himself, as much as to anybody else, that it was a myth, he armed himself with a couple cameras, a tripod, some grub, his bedroll, and a .21. pistol for snakes, and set forth into the Superstitions. You can understand this was quite a fete of bravado considering the fact that hundreds of people have allegedly been murdered in these famous Superstitions without a single felon ever being brought to trial. Anyway, Tom sallied forth into the fearful mountains and spent two weeks photographing the entire area around the Weaver's Needle without having anybody take a shot at him. He met and visited with several parties of prospectors and


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vacationers (probably looking for the old Dutchman's bonanza), and none of them had reported any trouble or any unusual incidents.

Anyway, Tom got his pictures and when they were processed, the prints were closely analyzed and then compared with the many myths and legends that have been written and printed in the past 25 years. In no instance did any of the books precisely lel>o't the terrain, the geology, or other conditions in a manner which would correspond with Tom's photographs. Some inter esting facts were evolved or revealed in this project. The photographs in one popular book had obviously been retouched to match the fictional exploits of its author. Photographs in another book were obviously of such poor quality that they 'apparently' substantiated misleading facts as reported therein. A pamphlet dealing with the Lost Dutchman myth contained a photograph of the Weaver's Needle which indicated the author had either taken the photograph several thousand years ago before nature had reduced the Superstitions or else the Needle had been transposed to a photograph with an Alpine background. "

Tropical Tramp
 

thats all good . yet i have a picture of the weavers needle as it is seen in the peralta -ruth map ! and i am standing at the stone house when i took that photo ! lol so what one man sees in a picture, a thousand men could look and see nothing ....it is in the eye of the beholder.


he had a bad camera . i think 10.2 megapixel will make a few clear photos ... my team will not be running around weavers needle . we are going to 5 sites .....

i hope to take a few 30-30's and i hope to never use them . but the big cats dont always agree . i am flushing caves and dark passes holes and pits ... deep brush abnd any where i think i can find evidence ...

i really dont see why this legend has not been solved yet ?there is evidnce out there ...is the real reason its lost today is because of the translations ?

i out right must disagree ,IMHO the legend is real and there is evidence to support that parts of the legend are true and fact and evidence support that ...

IMHO from my point of veiw ...


it well be just like this if the LDM is found .. every one will say we knew it was out there . it was a matter of finding it . i dont beleave that . i beleave it is a matter of proveing it is the dutchman mine or even the tayopa tunnle . i did not set out to come here and find ether of them .. i started looking for what i saw in 1979 . i cannt change the fact or the evidence that what i found supports the fact it is the LDM . trying to prove it wasnt ,was a misteak because it supported it was and leed to the tunnle . and all the rest of this legends unknown evidence ....

true or not who knows what we will find ... but you can not find anything typeing on the computer and never going out there to look for your self ...you and me real de tayopa have something in common . we at lest beleaved in our selfs ....no matter what we find ..
 

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