XP Deus NO DEPTH!

[ColonialDude]

Hi folks,


So my Minicab Explorer SE Pro had to be sent in for repair a while back. I decided it was a good time to try out the XP Deus as I was intrigued. I thought perhaps I'd end up having two machines for different situations which is never a bad thing. Having used explorers for 12 years or so I am obviously well versed on these machines. I understand their strengths and weaknesses. My only real complaint with the explorer is the weight, and having such a slow sweep speed can be annoying. That said, they are killers...especially when it comes to deep targets. I've tried dozens of different machines and always go back to the explorer and end up selling the other machines off. I was hoping this wasn't the case with the XP Deus.


I bought the WS4 with remote and standard 11" coil. I should preface the following with the fact I have only used the XP Deus on two hunts. That said, each hunt was a good 8-10 hr hunt. Not nearly enough time to come close to fully understanding a machine, but should be enough to get a handle on it. The good...this thing is super light, and I love how portable and easy to use it is with everything being wireless. My arm wasn't even sore at the end of the day, which it always is after an 8 hour hunt with the explorer! I found the tones somewhat pleasing, and the recovery speed was good. I did manage to make some nice finds. Having said that, I was EXTREMELY disappointed with the depth on the XP Deus! I dug up a couple of small brass fur trade ring at 2" in one area. Due to this find I started digging what I'd consider weak and horrible signals in the general area. Fortunately I was as I had a very broken, crappy, quiet signal that I wouldn't normally dig. I was stunned that I found another brass trade ring at 3.5". I actually reburied it and tweaked every setting imaginable to make the signal jump out but no matter what I did I couldn't make it much better. If I had hit that target with the explorer it would have rang off like a champ, and although it was small brass....I suspect I could have hit that at 8" no problem.


The XP Deus must be capable of more depth than this I would hope!?


Anyone have any suggestions on settings? For the record, I'm not a park hunter. I'm hunting old sites where I want to dig just about everything, with the exception of some iron.


Frankly I was not expecting to get the same depth as I do with the explorer...I've hit fishscales at 10"+. I'd be happy if the XP deus came in a couple inches less. Any former Explorer users hunting with the XP Deus now have any thoughts on this? Preferably someone who has actually spent some time with an Explorer.

I'm hoping my settings are out of whack and it's something I'm just not understanding...as I really want this thing to succeed.

Here are my settings...at least the last option I tried:

Disc: 0
Sens: 90
Freq: 17.4
Iron Vol: 2
React: 2.5 (Tried 2 - 3)
Audio Resp: 4
Pitch: 2 Tones
TX Power: 2
Silencer: -1
Audio Overload: 1


Thanks

 

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[Tedyoh]

Reload or better yet update the software.....you should easly hit a dime at 10".....my friend had the same problem...reload fixed it.

 

[Rookster]

I might suggest some YouTube skill school videos on the Deus. It's a different animal all together. Two hunts with machine is not enough in my opinion to judge the Deus. Learn the settings and target sounds, GB to you soil manually and you will see some improvement . But with time in and learning what the machine is telling you, good targets will come your way. I had doubts about the Deus after having other brands too but getting to know the machine makes a world of difference. Good luck.

 

[ColonialDude]

Reload or better yet update the software.....you should easly hit a dime at 10".....my friend had the same problem...reload fixed it.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will give this a shot!

 

[GreenMeanie]

A reactivity of 3 drops depth big time.
Give a reactivity of 2 a try.

 

[Tedyoh]

Thanks for the suggestion. I will give this a shot!

Just make sure you do it in the exact order the directions state or it wont load properly.....make sure you have a full charge on everything as well....controller, coil amd headphones....I also noticed you just posted your settings.....18khz probably wont hit a dime at 10" but 4 or 8 will have no problem

 

[ColonialDude]

I might suggest some YouTube skill school videos on the Deus. It's a different animal all together. Two hunts with machine is not enough in my opinion to judge the Deus. Learn the settings and target sounds, GB to you soil manually and you will see some improvement . But with time in and learning what the machine is telling you, good targets will come your way. I had doubts about the Deus after having other brands too but getting to know the machine makes a world of difference. Good luck.

I have watched quite a pile of different videos. Admittedly I did cram these in quickly to get out to the field. I definitely agree two hunts does not make an expert. That said, I have been detecting for 15 years and am not a beginner. I'm a beginner on the XP for sure, so am not writing it off or judging it completely yet. Like I said, it's quite possible it's something in my settings. It's not my inability to recognize the sound of a good target as I'm virtually digging everything. I was doing manual ground balance, although was having some issues with that on occasion. So the ground balancing thing could be a culprit as it will definitely affect depth! Thanks!

 

[Tedyoh]

A reactivity of 3 drops depth big time.
Give a reactivity of 2 a try.

Ive ran R5 and can get 6" easily.....3.5" on round object should blast away at R3

 

[ColonialDude]

A reactivity of 3 drops depth big time.
Give a reactivity of 2 a try.

Yes I figured as much, and read this. I believe I was initially hunting with a reactivity of 1. In my attempts to draw out a good signal I believe I even decreased reactivity to 1 with little change on the target quality. Thanks!

 

[ColonialDude]

Just make sure you do it in the exact order the directions state or it wont load properly.....make sure you have a full charge on everything as well....controller, coil amd headphones....I also noticed you just posted your settings.....18khz probably wont hit a dime at 10" but 4 or 8 will have no problem

Will do!!

Interesting, perhaps it's my frequency...although I thought I read this was good for relics. I've never had to put much thought into frequencies s the Explorer is multi frequency.

 

[Tedyoh]

18 is great for brass....it should have hit your target much better at 3.5" then you explained.....also tracking GB is the only way to go with the Deus

 

[Rookster]

Yea, I like R2 and sometimes in parks R2.5. For deep stuff I'll run 4 or 7 kHz R2 and silencer 0.

 

[dirtlooter]

love my deus, I thought that I had it all figured out before I got mine. But I was not digging any deep stuff and realized that I had a couple of things at not so great settings. These guys can really help you, loads of experience. Don't be too quick to write the deus off, pretty awesome machine. Several of my sites it is so much easier to use tracking GB. Good luck and ask more questions if need be, somebody will help you

 

[smokeythecat]

My Deus rocks everything. Upgrade the software and use Deus Fast, use tracking ground balance, pick a mid or upper frequency and do not tweak it. What I'm seeing is people tweak the machine so much it doesn't work well. I'm getting tired of digging those little tiny brass things 10-12" down, so I know the machine will do it.

 

[vferrari]

Hi folks,


So my Minicab Explorer SE Pro had to be sent in for repair a while back. I decided it was a good time to try out the XP Deus as I was intrigued. I thought perhaps I'd end up having two machines for different situations which is never a bad thing. Having used explorers for 12 years or so I am obviously well versed on these machines. I understand their strengths and weaknesses. My only real complaint with the explorer is the weight, and having such a slow sweep speed can be annoying. That said, they are killers...especially when it comes to deep targets. I've tried dozens of different machines and always go back to the explorer and end up selling the other machines off. I was hoping this wasn't the case with the XP Deus.


I bought the WS4 with remote and standard 11" coil. I should preface the following with the fact I have only used the XP Deus on two hunts. That said, each hunt was a good 8-10 hr hunt. Not nearly enough time to come close to fully understanding a machine, but should be enough to get a handle on it. The good...this thing is super light, and I love how portable and easy to use it is with everything being wireless. My arm wasn't even sore at the end of the day, which it always is after an 8 hour hunt with the explorer! I found the tones somewhat pleasing, and the recovery speed was good. I did manage to make some nice finds. Having said that, I was EXTREMELY disappointed with the depth on the XP Deus! I dug up a couple of small brass fur trade ring at 2" in one area. Due to this find I started digging what I'd consider weak and horrible signals in the general area. Fortunately I was as I had a very broken, crappy, quiet signal that I wouldn't normally dig. I was stunned that I found another brass trade ring at 3.5". I actually reburied it and tweaked every setting imaginable to make the signal jump out but no matter what I did I couldn't make it much better. If I had hit that target with the explorer it would have rang off like a champ, and although it was small brass....I suspect I could have hit that at 8" no problem.


The XP Deus must be capable of more depth than this I would hope!?


Anyone have any suggestions on settings? For the record, I'm not a park hunter. I'm hunting old sites where I want to dig just about everything, with the exception of some iron.


Frankly I was not expecting to get the same depth as I do with the explorer...I've hit fishscales at 10"+. I'd be happy if the XP deus came in a couple inches less. Any former Explorer users hunting with the XP Deus now have any thoughts on this? Preferably someone who has actually spent some time with an Explorer.

I'm hoping my settings are out of whack and it's something I'm just not understanding...as I really want this thing to succeed.

Here are my settings...at least the last option I tried:

Disc: 0
Sens: 90
Freq: 17.4
Iron Vol: 2
React: 2.5 (Tried 2 - 3)
Audio Resp: 4
Pitch: 2 Tones
TX Power: 2
Silencer: -1
Audio Overload: 1


Thanks

No depth - yep that is why we like the Deus so much. You don't wear yourself out having to dig for those deep targets. Lol.

You appear to favor relic hunting in fields from what I gather. First thing I will say is you cannot properly judge depth of a machine based solely on hunt finds. Too many variables, you don't know what targets are there and can't guarantee you are going to pass your coil over deep targets. Don't know what your soil conditions were (moist, dry, mineralized, mild). Bury some test targets of varying conductivity and depth to get used to how the Deus sounds on those various targets. Overall, not a bad start on settings, but I think I know why targets at depth were eluding you. Now specific settings comments:

Discrimination and Tones, Iron Volume and Audio Response

The first thing that pops out at me is your tones setting: You were basically using pitch and iron volume which is technically not two-tone. Pitch is beep dig and doesn't work well if you have not discriminated out the iron. Pitch tone intensity and pitch varies with target strength, specifically depth and/or target size. Deep targets' audio in pitch mode will rapidly fall off with depth. I reserve pitch solely for unmasking in thick iron where I am not going after super deep targets (I also crank recovery speed under these conditions). And I always use 10 disc when using pitch so I get the benefit of hearing the iron volume low tone contrasted against the non-ferrous pitch tone. With 0 disc, iron is going to sound the same as non-ferrous targets. The other problem with using no discrimination is that you will tend to get TID down averaging in the presence of signficant iron adjacent to a non-ferrous target.

For relic hunting I recommend 4 or 5 tones with disc of 8 to 10 OR Full tones with NO disc. Either way I want to hear the iron so I know I am in the right spot and with either multi or full tones, even deep non-ferrous targets will ring out loud and clear provided that audio response is set at 4 or above. (Lower settings of Audio response lower the intensity of deeper targets but I don't like that because I may not hear them, shallow targets will OL the circuit, so you will definitely know when the target is shallow vs. deep). Discrimination in multi-tones also enables the horseshoe display which tells you ferrous/non-ferrous target information (left side is ferrous, right side is non-ferrous and the more the horseshoe fills with black the shallower the target). For the multi-tone settings, you need to adjust the tone breaks consistent with the targets ID's you want them to correspond to. I set the lowest tone (Tone 1) corresponding to iron to an audio frequency of about 120 HZ and the last tone (Tone 4 or 5 depending on how many tones I have selected) to 900 hz or higher which represents high conductive, typically silver targets and just use the default frequencies for the intermediate tones.

Since TID varies with frequency as described below, I set up different custom programs with essentially the same settings other than frequency next to each other so I can just +/- between them to change frequency on the fly. Problem is, you need to vary the tone break IDs for the various target groups depending on frequency (for example at 8 khz nickels might come in around 48 but at 18 khz it might be more like 64, similarly a silver dime at 8 khz might be right around 85 at 8 khz but around 91 at 18 khz, Minie ball 71 at 8khz and 82 at 18 khz. That's complicated to set up. Full tones tone breaks are not user adjustable.

Bottom line: the key to hearing deep targets on the Deus is using multi or full tones, not pitch. On the Deus, you will get a tone on a deep target even if the target is too deep to register TID number on your remote. The audio does not lie on the Deus for targets at depth. As far as discrimination is concerned, you will not adversely affect target depth as long as you keep disc less than 15 (I see no reason to set it any higher than 10, if you want to filter out non-ferrous trash, try using the audio notch settings. High levels of applied discrimination (e.g., above 15 will start to significantly affect your depth).


Sensitivity and TX Power

90 is a great starting point. No sense in going much above 93 because you will just create more noise without a commensurate increase in depth.
Tx Power of 2 is also a great starting point. If your soil is highly mineralized, that will affect depth inherently. But also, setting Tx power too high in mineralized soil just creates ground feedback noise and affects your depth like high beams in fog. So backing off from TX=2 might be necessary. For maximum depth in mild soil, then Tx Power = 3 can help increase depth some. You need to balance TX power and sensitivity off of each other to compensate for soil conditions. For example, if you need to back off on Tx power due to mineralization, then increase sensitivity as much as you can while maintaining stability. Conversely, if you have to reduce Sensitivity due to EMI, then cranking up on Tx power to 3 might help compensate for the resulting depth loss.

Frequency


18 khz is a good setting for mid-conductive relics like brass, small lead, minie-balls, buttons, pewter and of course, gold. Problem is, 18 khz does not penetrate as far into the ground as the lower frequencies and lower frequencies are better for high conductors. So if you want to go for deeper targets or deep silver, you need to lower frequency to 8 or 12 (whichever is running stable at your site). 4 khz works for super deep high conductors or caches, but it is locked at Tx power of 3 which does not work well for mineralized soil. The higher frequencies tend to be less susceptible to EMI. Personally, I have found either of the HF coils which operate between 13 khz and 50 to 70khz to be IDEAL for relic hunting. Specifically, 28khz is a BUTTON MAGNET as far as I'm concerned. Yes, it won't be super deep but I have found buttons, minie balls, and silver coins at 28 khz down as far as 8 to 10 inches in a plowed field. Note that TID varies (increases) with frequency (unless you use ID normalization - which sets the TIDs to the 18 khz default regardless of frequency - I don't like that because I use the fact that TID varies with frequency as a tool to ferret out junk targets like bottlecaps whose ID goes opposite of frequency.

Reactivity and Silencer

Reactivity (recovery speed) definitely affects depth. Recovery speed of 1 is faster than any detector out there save for the Equinox and some specific settings on the Impact and Multi Kruzer. So if you want to maximize depth in non-trashy, mild soil. Setting reactivity to 1 is the way to go. I like the responsiveness of reactivity 2 though, and that is my normal hunt setting for relics because it assures me that I can separate non-ferrous from ferrous trash should I encounter it. If ferrous is thick I will crank reactivity up to 2.5 or 3. But I know depth is going to drop off. 3 is what I typically use with my thick iron pitch unmasking program. Silence of 0 quiets the machine down a little without affecting depth. -1 turns off silencer, but since there is no downside to using the quieter 0 setting, that is where I go. Higher silencer settings start to really affect depth performance so I rarely use them except for some extreme trash scenarios (lots of beach bottlecaps for instance) where I am, again, not looking for maximum depth performance. NOTE that there is an annoying "feature" on the Deus that ties the silencer setting to the reactivity setting. If you change reactivity on the fly, you need to go back and verify that the Deus has not also "automatically" changed the silencer setting to a higher number. So whenever you change reactivity, go back and make sure your silencer hasn't changed from 0 (or -1) to a higher number.

Ground Balance

If you are using version 4 software or above, tracking ground balance works well in the field if there is any level of mineralization whatsoever (as indicated on the mineralization bargraph on the right side of the screen - just pump the coil to see if you get ANY bars - if yes, then go with tracking), so I recommend it. Otherwise, if you use manual ground balance, be sure to set it (the lower number display) within +/-3 points of the "measured" ground phase reading which is the upper number.

I hope this helps demystify the Deus settings and gets you on your way to hitting some deeper relic and coin targets. HH

 

[vferrari]

My Deus rocks everything. Upgrade the software and use Deus Fast, use tracking ground balance, pick a mid or upper frequency and do not tweak it. What I'm seeing is people tweak the machine so much it doesn't work well. I'm getting tired of digging those little tiny brass things 10-12" down, so I know the machine will do it.

BTW Smokey uses 3 or 4 tones, i think, HF elliptical coil and finds it ALL. (5 banners with the Deus).

 

[smokeythecat]

I have 4 tones, dig it all and the last banner was with a beep and go no gb Tesoro Cibola. What I recommended is what I use, the Deus Fast, and a relatively high frequency. I got a blast digging a colonial 17th century buckle down about 10" in a pounded lawn last fall. No such thing as hunted out, just diminished returns. I haven't been out lately, but have been looking for Indian artifacts instead.

 

[ColonialDude]

No depth - yep that is why we like the Deus so much. You don't wear yourself out having to dig for those deep targets. Lol.

You appear to favor relic hunting in fields from what I gather. First thing I will say is you cannot properly judge depth of a machine based solely on hunt finds. Too many variables, you don't know what targets are there and can't guarantee you are going to pass your coil over deep targets. Don't know what your soil conditions were (moist, dry, mineralized, mild). Bury some test targets of varying conductivity and depth to get used to how the Deus sounds on those various targets. Overall, not a bad start on settings, but I think I know why targets at depth were eluding you. Now specific settings comments:

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I appreciate your efforts.

I'll use the DEUS for relic hunting only. This will range from plowed fields to forested areas, to grassy areas. Soil during that hunt was moist, and I don't believe we have highly mineralized soil around here. I didn't notice the mineralization bar. I recall manual ground balance was around 82.

I'll have a closer look at your recommendations and try some out in the field. I'm not writing the machine off...as stated in my original post I assume there's an issue with my settings, or something else. May have been my ground balancing, frequency, software issues, etc. I can't imagine any detector would have a hard time picking up a ring at 3-4"...so obviously there's an issue somewhere.

I'm not looking for crazy depth...I have the explorer for the deep stuff. Just looking for above average depth and good recover speed. I also know the explorer doesn't shine in plowed fields as the soil has been disturbed. That's probably it's largest flaw aside from it's weight. Just hoping I can get above average performance with this DEUS to compliment the explorer.

Thanks again. I'll definitely try out your recommendations when I have a chance.

Thanks

 

[namxat]

ColonialDude,

the first two hunts is just too early to go w/ an custom program. No offense meant!

For depth, start w/ an 12 or 8 khz factory program (the latter would be better) which are under normal conditions fully competitve to any minelab. From thereon tweak single points and register if it goes into the direction you want. See this as an incremental process.

I run around w/ factory programs 80% of the time and I am happy with it. They are goooood.....

However I am great proponent of "Whatever works for you". If you buy a new high-end tennis racket and you play worse than with old cheap one, dont bother with the expensive stuff, go back. It´s you that makes the finds not the detector and if you after half a season dont get around W7 the Deus say goodbye without tears.

Better happy driving a Camry than unhappy the Merceds.


Greets

Namxat

 

[vferrari]

Thanks for taking the time to write this up. I appreciate your efforts.

I'll use the DEUS for relic hunting only. This will range from plowed fields to forested areas, to grassy areas. Soil during that hunt was moist, and I don't believe we have highly mineralized soil around here. I didn't notice the mineralization bar. I recall manual ground balance was around 82.

I'll have a closer look at your recommendations and try some out in the field. I'm not writing the machine off...as stated in my original post I assume there's an issue with my settings, or something else. May have been my ground balancing, frequency, software issues, etc. I can't imagine any detector would have a hard time picking up a ring at 3-4"...so obviously there's an issue somewhere.

I'm not looking for crazy depth...I have the explorer for the deep stuff. Just looking for above average depth and good recover speed. I also know the explorer doesn't shine in plowed fields as the soil has been disturbed. That's probably it's largest flaw aside from it's weight. Just hoping I can get above average performance with this DEUS to compliment the explorer.

Thanks again. I'll definitely try out your recommendations when I have a chance.

Thanks

Like I said, simply switching from pitch to tones will make a huge difference, plus you get the advantage of being able t let the tones tell you what the target is vice the display. Deus is primarily a tones machine.