WW1 Era? US Military what is it?

[tdec1000]

This was purchased in a large coin collection. I have an idea of what it is, but I want an expert or authority to help me out which is you guys. Thanks Tom

 

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[tdec1000]

I forgot to mention it is a little larger than a morgan dollar. 44.5 mm wide and made of copper.

 

[Montana Jim]

Horse Boss... yes... probably WW I, post 1902 through maybe WW II.

Here is another: http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/m7_view_item.html?m7:item=M13

Also called a "Rosette"

 

[ivan salis]

being its got the great seal design its post 1902 - maybe -WW1-- WW2 era

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

It's a Cavalry bridle rosette.

(Mounted Couriers) Check out FarWest: http://myweb.wvnet.edu/~mswim/bookmark.html

Here is a better site: http://www.antiquemystique.com/pages/9502_jpg.htm

B

 

[SgtSki in MI]

being its got the great seal design its post 1902 - maybe -WW1-- WW2 era

Good point to mention WW2 Ivan. Not a lot of people are aware that the US Army had a horse cavlry all the way up to the early part of WW2. There was even a US Horse Cavalry unit that saw combat action in WW2. It was the 26th US Cavalry (Phillipine Scouts) who covered the US and Philippine withdrawal to the Bataan Peninsula by fighting a rearguard action against invading Japanese Forces from Lingayan all the way to Bataan. Although they were virtually wiped out, their mission was accomplished.

The Red Army employed Horse Cavalry througout WW2 with Cossacks. The Wehrmacht also had some Cossacks of their own who fought for them on horseback. I guess they had enough of Uncle Josef and traded over to the Germans, out of the frying pan and into the fire for them I suppose. I'm sure it didn't go too hot for any of them who managed to survive the war.

 

[trusty]

Mules were also used in the Pacific Theater, in Burma for sure. I read somewhere that the United States never lost a war in which mules were used.

 

[stefen]

being its got the great seal design its post 1902 - maybe -WW1-- WW2 era

Good point to mention WW2 Ivan. Not a lot of people are aware that the US Army had a horse cavlry all the way up to the early part of WW2. There was even a US Horse Cavalry unit that saw combat action in WW2. It was the 26th US Cavalry (Phillipine Scouts) who covered the US and Philippine withdrawal to the Bataan Peninsula by fighting a rearguard action against invading Japanese Forces from Lingayan all the way to Bataan. Although they were virtually wiped out, their mission was accomplished.

The Red Army employed Horse Cavalry througout WW2 with Cossacks. The Wehrmacht also had some Cossacks of their own who fought for them on horseback. I guess they had enough of Uncle Josef and traded over to the Germans, out of the frying pan and into the fire for them I suppose. I'm sure it didn't go too hot for any of them who managed to survive the war.

Add to this WWII history, the fact that Poland also had a calvary up to the date of the German invasion of Poland.

 

[ivan salis]

yep the polish calvary charging german tanks (the end of an era)--brave but foolish . --the seal is most likely WW1 but there were a few calvary units in WW2 still -- in the beginning and in the phillipines as you say and a few other mountion type plaxes where motored type vehicles just couldn't go.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Here is an interesting site:


http://kelticklankirk.com/horse_cavalry_in_modern_combat.htm



B

 

[SgtSki in MI]

yep the polish calvary charging German tanks (the end of an era)--brave but foolish . --the seal is most likely WW1 but there were a few calvary units in WW2 still -- in the beginning and in the Philippines as you say and a few other monition type places where motored type vehicles just couldn't go.

It funny whenever the Invasion of Poland comes up the first, if not the only thing that comes up is: "The Polish Cavalry charged German Tanks" and that's about it. Well there's WAY more to the story than that. I, being of Polish descent, always feel compelled to set the record a little straighter so more can be known about what the Poles did that September other than the blanket statement that their cavalry charged German tanks.

When Germany Invaded Poland on 1 September 1939 they had:

11 Armored Divisions to Poland's 1 (so YES Poland did have a tank or two!)
40 Infantry Divisions to Poland's 30
4 Motorized Infantry Divisions to Poland's None
One Cavalry Brigade to Poland's 11 (so the Germans had war horsies, too!)

The Luftwaffe invaded with 850 Bombers and Dive Bombers to Poland's 210 Bombers. The Luftwaffe had 400 Fighters to the Polish Air Force's 150 Fighters. Poland's airmen were some of the best-trained in Europe, but their equipment was obsolete and they were severely outnumbered.

Despite this, here's what sort of damage the poles were able to inflict on the invading Germans:

Germany lost 217 tanks along with enough vehicles and artillery to account for an entire armored division
German casualties were 16,343 Dead, 27,280 Wounded, and 320 Missing in Action.

The outnumbered and outclassed Polish Air Force including their Antiaircraft defense assets on the ground managed to shoot down 285 German aircraft. Another 279 German Aircraft were damaged beyond repair. This accounted for approximately 25% of the Luftwaffe's total available airpower in September 1939.

Polands casualties were 66,000 Killed; 133,700 Wounded; and 694,000 captured.

90,000 Polish Military Personnel managed to escape Poland and carried on the fight through the war, mainly serving as augmentees to the Free French Army under DeGaulle. Theire finest hour was during the battle for Monte Cassino in May,1944 where they were instrumental in the capture of the German-Held monastery there. Over 1,000 of them are buried on a slope overlooked by Monte Cassino. Nearly 3,000 more Polish soldiers are buried in Italy at cemeteries in Loreto, Bolonia, and Casamassima.

M4A3 Sherman Tank of the Polish 4th Armor Regiment that was destroyed by a mine during advance on Monte Cassino and turned into a monument in the spot where it was hit.

Polish Flag above the ruins of Monte Cassino: 18 May 1944

Polish Cemetery on Hill 593 as seen from the Monte Cassino Monestary
​

Several Polish Airman escaped to serve with distinction through the remainder of the war flying with the Royal Air Force, several becoming some of the RAFs highest scoring aces.

What they did during WW2 was considerably more than just, "Oh, they charged German tanks with their Cavalry and got wiped out". That's a bad rap and had become the definitive stereotype of Poland's contribution to the war effort. They deserve just a little bit more credit than that.

Below is a photo of a grave in the Polish Cemetery on Hill 593 at overlooked by the Monestary at Monte Cassino, and the inscription that can be seen on a monument there:

"We Polish soldiers
For our freedom and yours
Have given our souls to God
Our bodies to the soil of Italy
And our hearts - to Poland." [/b​

]

.................and now you know more than the standard "They fought tanks on horseback" balderdash

-SgtSki

 

[ivan salis]

I well agree the polish fought long and hard as "resistance fighters" --free poles---many died the poles were brave hard fighters --the warsaw ghettos anyone? a famous fight of resistance during WW2-- was just saying the brave but hopely outclassed polish calvary charging tanks on horseback with explosives trying to kill the tanks --what a pitiful sight it must have been ---( like the charge of the english light brigiade into the cannons)--- so brave, so sad and so foolish-- brave men and their horses ---they that died so horribly with so little chance of success-- if only they had had the proper equiptmentto fight with -- they equiptment wize were no match for the germans and were greatly outnumbered to boot. -- I both respect and like the polish people (heck my mother in law is polish )-- long live cabbage rolls -- boiled poltatos and parogies!!

 

[SgtSki in MI]

No Ivan I didn't mean to say that I thought you were disrespectful. I just say the old "Charged the Tanks on Horseback" but again which seems to be the catch-all phrase that is used to describe the sum total of Poland's efforts during WW2, but there was a heckuva lot more to them than that.

So I wasn't put off by your original post at all, I understand.

 

[BuckleBoy]

being its got the great seal design its post 1902 - maybe -WW1-- WW2 era

It's a Cavalry bridle rosette.

(Mounted Couriers) Check out FarWest: http://myweb.wvnet.edu/~mswim/bookmark.html

Here is a better site: http://www.antiquemystique.com/pages/9502_jpg.htm

B

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,47375.0.html

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

I didn't read your link, what's your point??




B

 

[Rmeav8r]

I don't know if it is common knowledge but the 1st Calvalry Divison at Ft. Hood Texas still has a horse Detachment!

Joe
US Army, Retired

http://www.hood.army.mil/1stcavdiv/horseDet/default.html

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

SgtSki .... you neglected to mention the Polish paratroops who fought in the Normandy invasion and later in Operation Market Garden I believe.
siegfried schlagrule

 

[ivan salis]

well the earlier post by montana jim said post 1902 -- I added to that info "great seal" to explain how you know its post 1902 --because the great seal was adopted for use in 1902 -- thus if you find stuff with it on it --its 1902 or newer. also I added the maybe WW2 since there were still some horse troops around in WW2 --Ivan

 

[sniffer]

I'm glad I read this thread. I didn't know that part of history. Thank you SgtSki

Sniffer

 

[Rmeav8r]

SgtSki .... you neglected to mention the Polish paratroops who fought in the Normandy invasion and later in Operation Market Garden I believe.
siegfried schlagrule

Yes, Operation Market Garden as well. There are dozens of Polish soldiers buried along side the 1st British Airborne at the military cemetery near Arnhem Belgium.