✅ SOLVED Williams Type III?

[Yak1366]

I have had this heavily impacted bullet in one landowners case for a year now. The only discernible feature was, what I would call, a dovetail base. At the time, I attempted to search for solid base bullets online but as my bullet knowledge was infinitely less than what it is today, I miss identified it.

So on Saturday, Davers and I got together for the CW Show in Dalton GA. I think we spent an hour in the show before we went out to the parking lot to go thru each others find cases. Over the next several hours, we had quite an informative exchange as it was digger to digger. IMHO you can't really get that information from anybody across a table with price tags on everything.

Anyways, Davers pointed out the bullet below, as possibly having a zinc base plate. I dug into it today to discover it's possibly one of the most common cleaner bullets. This is the only specimen I have with such a base, and without the original spacing/gap profile, I had it on my list to post, along with many others, for ID.

Only specs I can offer are 438 grains, 0.559-563" widest measurement of the dovetail feature.

So if ya'll concur as a Williams Type III, I can update my documentation and mark it off the list.

Thanks

 

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[TheCannonballGuy]

Definitely a yankee civil war .58 Williams "Bore-Cleaner" bullet, fired and landed with "harsh impact" on stony ground. Being dug in North Georgia, it has to be a Type 3, and that is confirmed by your bullet's weight (in grains).

By the way, that's not actually a "dovetail base." Your bullet's base is a separately-made, inserted "thumbtack" (actually a disc on a post), made of hardened-lead alloy. The post fits into a hole which is about .20-inch in diameter. We sometimes find the thumbtack base separated from the bullet's main body, particularly in areas where Sherman's Yankees had time to sit around and play with their bullets.

The only part of a Type#3 Williams Bore-Cleaner that was made of zinc was a thin washer which was held in place on the bottom of the bullet's main body by the hardened-lead alloy "thumbtack."

 

[Yak1366]

Definitely a yankee civil war .58 Williams "Bore-Cleaner" bullet, fired and landed with "harsh impact" on stony ground. Being dug in North Georgia, it has to be a Type 3, and that is confirmed by your bullet's weight (in grains).

By the way, that's not actually a "dovetail base." Your bullet's base is a separately-made, inserted "thumbtack" (actually a disc on a post), made of hardened-lead alloy. The post fits into a hole which is about .20-inch in diameter. We sometimes find the thumbtack base separated from the bullet's main body, particularly in areas where Sherman's Yankees had time to sit around and play with their bullets.

The only part of a Type#3 Williams Bore-Cleaner that was made of zinc was a thin washer which was held in place on the bottom of the bullet's main body by the hardened-lead alloy "thumbtack."

Great info again CannonballGuy!!!

So with respect to the pic below with the red background, the zinc washer is shown on the rightmost bullet, yet that couldn't be the original diameter if the purpose was to clean/scrape the barrel?

And is the rightmost bullet would have been the original look of my piece?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Yak1366 asked:
>So with respect to the pic below with the red background, the zinc washer is shown on the rightmost bullet,"

Only a partial remnant of the zinc washer remains on the rightmost bullet. The washer is seen more intact on the center and left bullets. (The Williams Cleaner Type One did not have the "thumbtack"... the washer was held in place by a short peened-over stud, which often failed to hold onto the washer upon firing, so it got replaced by the thumbtack in later versions of the bullet.)

> "yet that couldn't be the original diameter if the purpose was to clean/scrape the barrel?"

The washer wasn't flat, it was bowl-shaped. When the bullet got fired, the thumbtack was driven forcefully up against the bowl-shaped washer, flattening it, which caused it to expand outward into the gunbarrel's rifling-grooves. You can duplicate that "expansion" effect by stepping on a cheap throwaway thin plastic picnic bowl.

> "And is the rightmost bullet would have been the original look of my piece?"

Yes, except that as mentioned above, a lot of the shallow bowl-shaped washer is missing on the right-side bullet in the red background photo.

 

[Yak1366]

Fantastic Info!! I feel like I just completed a class on Williams Cleaner Bullets.

 

[sutphin]

WILLIAMS FOR SURE

 

[8mygritz]

thanx for info u provided w/this & my find.it's interesting to note that these were shermans guys & they had a propensity to "play"around w/their bullets & remove the bases.