William L. Crothers West Philadelphia button

[Calvyking]

I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about this button. Says Wm. L. Crothers West Phil. on the front and Dohertys Patent on back. I'm wondering why that name's on the front. Found it while metal detecting.

 

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[oldmxrat]

Cool find, congrats and welcome to the forum!

 

[pepperj]

Looks like a hem weight of sorts.

 

[E-Trac-Ohio]

Cool find & welcome to the forum !

Good Hunting !

 

[scruggs]

Welcome aboard! Cool find you made!

 

[Red-Coat]

These buttons seem to be quite scarce but appear to have been made by Hammond Turner & Sons of Brimingham, England. Some have their ‘H.T. & S.’ backmark that typically dates to 1823-1865 alongside the reference to Doherty’s Patent.

In addition to the name ‘Wm. L. Crothers – West Phil.’ on the other side of yours, they have also turned up with ‘L.S. Davidson – New York’ on the other side (and also with no other company name). I don’t know either of these companies but they weren’t button makers. Likely they would have been clothing manufacturers or tailors having custom buttons produced for them by Hammond Turner. As far as I know, the details of Doherty’s Patent have not been traced. Assuming it was a British patent, many of our records are incomplete, having been destroyed by WWII bombing of London and other cities.

 

[Mackaydon]

Here, a similar one is described as a 'fly button':

Buttons_D

A list of Thames Buttons Found Mudlarking, London, Made by Si-finds but helped by his Mudlark friends

www.thamesbuttons.com

Don in SoCal

 

[Red-Coat]

Here, a similar one is described as a 'fly button':

Buttons_D

A list of Thames Buttons Found Mudlarking, London, Made by Si-finds but helped by his Mudlark friends

www.thamesbuttons.com

Don in SoCal

They've misread one of the letters on that one. It's H.T. & S. (for Hammond Turner & Sons) not M.T. & S.

Deakin & Co were also not button makers, but had buttons made for them by Hammond Turner. I think this will be same company that advertised as Deakins & Co in the 1860s as Tailors, Clothiers, Hatters, Hosiers & General Outfitters at Victoria Street and New Market Place in Grimsby, England.

 

[Mackaydon]

British Industrial Plastics, Ltd. (BIP) manufactured amino-plastic moulding powders. They employed Steven Walter Doherty for many years, eventually as works manager. In 1932 he left their employment and on the 8th of April, 1932, he entered into a leaving agreement with them whereby he undertook, inter alia, not until the 31st of March, 1934, to interest himself in the manufacture or sale of certain chemicals, which included the constituents of a secret process of BIP. On the 22nd of June, 1934, Doherty wrote to another company offering his services to them, On the 27th of June, 1934, a meeting between those two took place, at which Doherty alleged that he had a process of his own for making urea formaldehyde moulding powder, and stated that he would like a job with this company. The matter was referred to that company's patent agents, who after inquiries reported that this process was patentable, and in due course a Provisional Specification was filed on the 11th of February 1935, in Doherty's name. A Complete Specification was filed on the 19th of July I2, 1935. This company took Doherty into their employ for a year from the first of May, 1935. The Specification was accepted on the 23rd of June, 1936.

Urea-formaldehyde molding compositions have continuously been used successfully to produce numerous articles, as for example, switch plates, radio and television cabinets, clock casings, scale housings, buttons, cosmetic and jewelry containers, cigarette holders, pipe stems, beads, and the like.

Source for first para: https://watermark.silverchair.com/5...h0rWjgLA67GOYs_-xMyaW7v1csoijYXEtTwMi_fzhytIQ
Source for second para: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3223656A/en

Don in SoCal

 

[Red-Coat]

Here, a similar one is described as a 'fly button':

Buttons_D

A list of Thames Buttons Found Mudlarking, London, Made by Si-finds but helped by his Mudlark friends

www.thamesbuttons.com

Don in SoCal

British Industrial Plastics, Ltd. (BIP) manufactured amino-plastic moulding powders. They employed Steven Walter Doherty for many years, eventually as works manager. In 1932 he left their employment and on the 8th of April, 1932, he entered into a leaving agreement with them whereby he undertook, inter alia, not until the 31st of March, 1934, to interest himself in the manufacture or sale of certain chemicals, which included the constituents of a secret process of BIP. On the 22nd of June, 1934, Doherty wrote to another company offering his services to them, On the 27th of June, 1934, a meeting between those two took place, at which Doherty alleged that he had a process of his own for making urea formaldehyde moulding powder, and stated that he would like a job with this company. The matter was referred to that company's patent agents, who after inquiries reported that this process was patentable, and in due course a Provisional Specification was filed on the 11th of February 1935, in Doherty's name. A Complete Specification was filed on the 19th of July I2, 1935. This company took Doherty into their employ for a year from the first of May, 1935. The Specification was accepted on the 23rd of June, 1936.

Urea-formaldehyde molding compositions have continuously been used successfully to produce numerous articles, as for example, switch plates, radio and television cabinets, clock casings, scale housings, buttons, cosmetic and jewelry containers, cigarette holders, pipe stems, beads, and the like.

Source for first para: https://watermark.silverchair.com/5...h0rWjgLA67GOYs_-xMyaW7v1csoijYXEtTwMi_fzhytIQ
Source for second para: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3223656A/en

Don in SoCal

Looking again at the mudlark finds link, there are two buttons illustrated on that page. The first, with the "Deakin & Co. - Grimsby" mark identified as a “fly button” is a four-hole button but not from Hammond Turner and unrelated to “Doherty’s Patent”.

The second button, which is “Doherty’s Patent” from Hammond Turner has a bar across the central hole but isn’t claimed to be a fly button. I don’t know what its use was, but have asked an expert if they can shed any light on buttons with this form. Incidentally, one turned up in archaeological excavations at Mitchelville, South Carolina where there were numerous American Civil War camps, and was tentatively assigned as a “shelter tent fastener”.

These buttons do not appear to me to be from the 1930s, and I very much doubt any connection to Stephen Walter Doherty’s moulding process.

If either “L.S. DAVIDSON – NEW YORK” or “Wm. L. CROTHERS – WEST PHIL” can be identified, that may give a timeframe for the buttons, although probably not their intended usage. If my expert comes up with any more information, I’ll post it here.

 

[Mackaydon]

https://watermark.silverchair.com/56-10-271.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAA1MwggNPBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggNAMIIDPAIBADCCAzUGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMGWpuSdhGefrw_ww7AgEQgIIDBqJaRCa1ygWKKTFOP7T7zQsG80aq9aGn1VC2Ox4BCR0EEnkE7aVKnnIKUe5UcG1iBh_91zzvwSXCU8K7hwp65u__tKwPAlxufW2su9xYUH7fTR2FftqDsd8tRRgC2y9JNouHso8n82VW7fAKu1BEWF7lGoyQEMYBDiMnohLTI7rsQ3bKU42ri0B6hkNfdlc-tj8A4ss34C2P_eiaiwbfHk-8ctEAExcTkydSBOMqsY1A9WuvRdyFsautSs-3QPgnrkSLAjSbN4Q-3sStRJ3O46lm5VDd4CHw47fg-8_5EeR9rQrtt91a5DB019lowVac-ayUZJwcmBSdBX4NyMh_2Iv06CNkS9UjfvsuGNW_xA-7dD5CC09a94qjwXCYExlTH11eSjqdZQ3-Q0VbBL1Q5-Hwk_kdKwFBz5F-L8r6uQT8F8HRIsO7Yf5LmNbLeJmLISYKrXzZ-qNynAogN3Vo0zPYauY8e-n6rRkbdBqZfIjakJ6ZaEAP1E_pWyURe1Ec3WMP1OerTRriyUtLVA9muJYpzKHFzLHJurW3ZW7fEBQIoDHxM5iUpHh9shrKU1fDiSK5KqnoW4461jwOEOJTX41jJaLV0knDXp-fDYGydSQzJbfixOkN9hjsew4xcNVYIOVNkJynYYAvovJ9gasWONZAdBSgSMz6zGMt33R2ah39f6909DbV7D3Ny_4DYE3jYMRZilaohB1N_tpTx41LqwGOdnxM2-JLygB6eipYiF9OnbY-q6OsS6dP1bnatO4Fz2IGgpQwOzpqpltIgrEs_rIgAoWim30wuLJynkXosbKckv0xOXR8yjrpyWYJyvBGkjwasskKKb0GZzmj_k_-0oK72zIY0ApOUpUKFXIviQDv9WCC7k7oP7JwQe2vLphp973ZYGGfC_69GkVbbcnYN7Yf9bNQVWvscdz8r4j83QCKKP4nyn-SQmZXNjxZs9lseIXWc_GiutYXdLHL3Oo69qpe8O4wuPd-V2V0S4QLiANsvy3zWHg-Q02DhEDDucrgjWxJ2cyU5Q

Don in SoCal
Specific Doherty article begins on page 272 if the first referral above is inoperative.

 

[Red-Coat]

https://watermark.silverchair.com/56-10-271.pdf?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAA1MwggNPBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggNAMIIDPAIBADCCAzUGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMGWpuSdhGefrw_ww7AgEQgIIDBqJaRCa1ygWKKTFOP7T7zQsG80aq9aGn1VC2Ox4BCR0EEnkE7aVKnnIKUe5UcG1iBh_91zzvwSXCU8K7hwp65u__tKwPAlxufW2su9xYUH7fTR2FftqDsd8tRRgC2y9JNouHso8n82VW7fAKu1BEWF7lGoyQEMYBDiMnohLTI7rsQ3bKU42ri0B6hkNfdlc-tj8A4ss34C2P_eiaiwbfHk-8ctEAExcTkydSBOMqsY1A9WuvRdyFsautSs-3QPgnrkSLAjSbN4Q-3sStRJ3O46lm5VDd4CHw47fg-8_5EeR9rQrtt91a5DB019lowVac-ayUZJwcmBSdBX4NyMh_2Iv06CNkS9UjfvsuGNW_xA-7dD5CC09a94qjwXCYExlTH11eSjqdZQ3-Q0VbBL1Q5-Hwk_kdKwFBz5F-L8r6uQT8F8HRIsO7Yf5LmNbLeJmLISYKrXzZ-qNynAogN3Vo0zPYauY8e-n6rRkbdBqZfIjakJ6ZaEAP1E_pWyURe1Ec3WMP1OerTRriyUtLVA9muJYpzKHFzLHJurW3ZW7fEBQIoDHxM5iUpHh9shrKU1fDiSK5KqnoW4461jwOEOJTX41jJaLV0knDXp-fDYGydSQzJbfixOkN9hjsew4xcNVYIOVNkJynYYAvovJ9gasWONZAdBSgSMz6zGMt33R2ah39f6909DbV7D3Ny_4DYE3jYMRZilaohB1N_tpTx41LqwGOdnxM2-JLygB6eipYiF9OnbY-q6OsS6dP1bnatO4Fz2IGgpQwOzpqpltIgrEs_rIgAoWim30wuLJynkXosbKckv0xOXR8yjrpyWYJyvBGkjwasskKKb0GZzmj_k_-0oK72zIY0ApOUpUKFXIviQDv9WCC7k7oP7JwQe2vLphp973ZYGGfC_69GkVbbcnYN7Yf9bNQVWvscdz8r4j83QCKKP4nyn-SQmZXNjxZs9lseIXWc_GiutYXdLHL3Oo69qpe8O4wuPd-V2V0S4QLiANsvy3zWHg-Q02DhEDDucrgjWxJ2cyU5Q

Don in SoCal
Specific Doherty article begins on page 272 if the first referral above is inoperative.

All very interesting, but I’m sure this is not a 20th Century button and is likely from between c.1823-1865 as per the H.T. & S. backmark often seen.

In addition to the one found during excavations at Mitchelville, South Carolina that I mentioned above, another one turned up during excavations at Fort Bowie, Arizona (established 1862, abandoned 1894). Described thus:

“[The third brass button] is a two-piece sew-through believed to have been designed and produced originally for use at the United States Military Academy at West Point. This specimen measures 22 lignes and has the initials 'U.S.M.A.' on the front above a pair of crossed laurel(?) branches (Fig. 12 v). The backstamp reads ‘DOHERTY’S PATENT,’ a reference that could not be traced to a patent or manufacturer.”

https://open.uapress.arizona.edu/re.../section/6b157a79-9cd0-4207-b749-9aff38076609

The image isn't good enough to see it in detail, but I think that this is another strong indication that “Doherty’s Patent” buttons are 19th Century and at least some of them had military usage. It doesn’t imply that Hammond Turner was the only maker (the patent could have been licensed to more than one manufacturer and not all of the buttons have the H.T. & S. backmark), or that they were purely for military use.

 

[ModernMiner]

Very interesting button and input info. 👍
Welcome to Tnet. You will learn a lot here.
-MM-

 

[Bramblefind]

William L. Crothers (1843-1913) is listed in the 1870 and 1880 Philadelphia census as a "Tailor." Louis S. Davidson (1839-1909) is listed in the 1870 and 1880 New York census as a "Tailor" and "Merchant Tailor."

There is an 1858 English patent by James Doherty of Edinburgh for "Improvements in Buttons or Dress Fastenings" that perhaps is related --

English Patents of Inventions, Specifications

www.google.com