I always see the price for gold, silver, etc. in the news. However, any place that I know of that buys precious metals only pays a fraction of that price. Where do you go to sell them for their full value? Who is it that pays that price?
Where Do You Sell Precious Metals For Their Full Value?
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Diver_Down
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What financial incentive does a buyer have in paying 100% of the spot price? Great for you as a seller.
I suppose eBay is the closest market where a buyer pays 100% or more of the spot price. Of course, you have to pay seller fees (closing costs; paypal fees; etc).
I suppose eBay is the closest market where a buyer pays 100% or more of the spot price. Of course, you have to pay seller fees (closing costs; paypal fees; etc).
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Precious metal refineries will give you about 96% of the spot price of gold the day they melt it down, but they only deal in volume...
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Well, it's not a question of financial incentive. What I'm thinking is, if their is no one actually willing to pay that price, then the price is meaningless, it's fictitious.
It's kind of like car dealers that put an ad in the paper for a car with a MSRP of $20,000 but you can buy it from us for 50% off, only $10,000! But then try to find anyone selling that same car for $20,000---there's no one. Everyone that is selling that car is selling it for around the same $10,000 price, maybe between $9,000 & $11,000. So that MSRP and the supposed bargain you're getting are meaningless.
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Good luck finding gold to buy at 50% off... Difference between something that depreciates and precious metal especially gold..... apples to oranges... As I said, you can get 96% of spot price from a precious metal refinery....
Marchas45
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The Paper market which is manipulated sets the price but the the real price of the PM's is probably a lot higher. When I sell which is rarely and only when I need cash, I have no problem selling at spot price. I place an ad on Craigslist and whithin a few days it's gone.
If you are a true Stacker you will never sell unless you need cash and the day is coming you will be glad you have your stack and the dollar won't be worth the paper it's printed on. Keep Stacking.
If you are a true Stacker you will never sell unless you need cash and the day is coming you will be glad you have your stack and the dollar won't be worth the paper it's printed on. Keep Stacking.
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I think you misunderstood. I'm not talking about getting a 50% discount. What I'm saying is that something is only worth what you can sell it for. If all I can get for an ounce of gold is $2-300, that's all it's worth to me, not $1800, or whatever the current spot price is. And unless someone is actually buying gold at that price, the spot price is meaningless.
If refineries buy at or near spot, then the question is, where are these refineries, and can the average person sell to them? If the refineries only buy in quantities larger than what the average person would have to sell, then it would seem that for such people their only choice is to sell to the "we buy gold" guys. So for those people, their gold is only worth about 10-20% of the spot price.
Also, I would like to ask, if a refinery buys for at or near spot price, they must have to mark it up when they sell it in order to cover their refining costs & make a profit. So they would be selling it for spot+X%. Who are they selling it to for those prices?
a reputable coin shop or junk jewelry dealer will buy your stuff for say 90-95% of spot
They sell en mass to a refiner who pays them say 93-97% of spot
The refiner then either makes their product or sells the purified raw material to mint.
Its all a numbers game of the buy / sell spread.
The more you have the better price you can demand.
They sell en mass to a refiner who pays them say 93-97% of spot
The refiner then either makes their product or sells the purified raw material to mint.
Its all a numbers game of the buy / sell spread.
The more you have the better price you can demand.
Another thought is an independent jewelry store. Some of those guys make jewelry and will buy right there and then with cash. Your gonna need to know that days spot price before you walk in. The only gold I ever sold was to one of those guys who gave me 90% of that days spot. But, then again at that time gold was just a hair over $300 and i had exactly one oz. of shiny clean small flakes of gold. I needed a new TV. I still hate myself for that move.
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Show me a coin dealer that will buy my gold for 90 -95 %. Never happen. More like 75 -80 %. (that's 75/80% of 24K not 14K). He will use the SG formula to pay 80% of gold and then 80% of silver.... IF he is in a generous mood. TTC
Sorry to burst your bubble of doubt.
"gold bullion coins, gold bullion bars buy or sell, U.S. Gold Eagles, Krugerrand gold coin, U.S. Silver eagles, 90% silver coin bags precious metals bought and sold at www.golddealer.com"
as of 4:55 p.m. PST on 7/22/2012 Gold Coin Melt Values - Coinflation (Live Prices) has gold at $1580.80 per oz.
California Numismatic Investments in the above mentioned link will buy your gold eagle for $1602.00 which is 101.34% of spot....
I have sold at CNI before so I can back up my claim. I don't deal in junk jewelry or trash so if that is what you are basing your #'s on I can't help you. But for good quality gold or bullion if you aren't getting 90% ++ melt you are getting hustled.
Sorry if you ever sold at the prices you mentioned.........
HH,
Bigheed
"gold bullion coins, gold bullion bars buy or sell, U.S. Gold Eagles, Krugerrand gold coin, U.S. Silver eagles, 90% silver coin bags precious metals bought and sold at www.golddealer.com"
as of 4:55 p.m. PST on 7/22/2012 Gold Coin Melt Values - Coinflation (Live Prices) has gold at $1580.80 per oz.
California Numismatic Investments in the above mentioned link will buy your gold eagle for $1602.00 which is 101.34% of spot....
I have sold at CNI before so I can back up my claim. I don't deal in junk jewelry or trash so if that is what you are basing your #'s on I can't help you. But for good quality gold or bullion if you aren't getting 90% ++ melt you are getting hustled.
Sorry if you ever sold at the prices you mentioned.........
HH,
Bigheed
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Sorry if I misunderstood you, Bigheed. The originator of the thread made no distinction between selling jewelry and bullion. Also, the post I quoted from you inferred that the refiner was "purifying" the gold brought in to sell to a mint. Were you also talking about jewelry? Why would they purify bullion coins (.9999 fine) to a mint... they are already minted? The site you mentioned is buying and selling gold (today's prices) at a 3% spread. That is to say that you lose 3% if you bought at their selling price and turned it right back over at their buying price. I wasn't talking about Eagles, Krugers, or Maple Leafs. I was talking about gold I pull off a placer site or jewelry, as the original poster probably was. I buy coins on a regular basis. I also sell jewelry to a certain coin dealer and walk out with coins instead. Only way to go. If I sold my coins today, I also would recieve more that I paid for them. That is the nature of such a volitile market.You didn't burst my bubble. I can take a hit (you hit like a girl). TTC
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Just to clarify... MSRP is the Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price... and is JUST a suggestion. The actual price paid will be lower but STILL higher than the price that the car dealership paid, otherwise they are losing money. And some will take a loss (but not much) on cars from the previous year to "clear the lot" to make room for MONEY cars. TTC
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Marchas, you are right, in the sense PM prices... and all other things are overpriced. I believe London sets the price of gold and ALL commercial buyers and sellers of gold use that quote to set their prices the next day. Silver has been a better buy the last 10 years. Gold is up 627% and silver up 1137% over the last ten years. Hmmm, no more gold for me, I think. Silver! (EDIT: I must bactrack.... I used the highs and lows for PMs over the last ten yrs to arrive at the above gains. Should have used today's spot to get more ACCURATE results. Silver WAS better than 1100% at its high. Sorry.) TTC
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All depends on the denominations. My 1/10th gold is harder to stack than 1/4 or ounce. TC
PYRATE
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Spot price is determined by a trade between a buyer and seller, so clearly someone bought at the spot price in order for there to be a spot price.
Other than traders, the only other people I am aware of who pay spot price are retail customers.
jim4silver
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If we are talking gold jewelry, then that is correct. But if we are talking gold/silver bullion, then almost all well established coin dealers pay over spot price everyday for certain items. For example, silver eagles bring roughly 1-1.50 over spot locally if they are in BU condition. Silver Maples, Silver Austrian Philharmonics, Engelhard prospectors, good condition silver dollars, etc, bring in over spot prices almost 100% of the time at my local coin stores. Gold Eagles bring over spot as do other US gold coins, decent condition raw old US gold etc do as well.
Some people who only have access to low paying coin stores/pawn shops/PM buyers might never get spot for what they sell to them, but it is not like that everywhere.
There is also a "bid" and "ask" price that dealers look at when buying and selling items, whether wholesale or retail. Look at a grey sheet price list sometime and you will see what I mean. Bid means what someone out there is offering to pay right now for something, and ask is the price someone is willing to sell right now for, roughly speaking. If you have a good relationship with a coin dealer, it is often possible to get them to sell you something at the "bid" price, since that is what they would presumably get if they sold it wholesale to another coin dealer. Dealers will buy from the public for under the "bid" price, since they have to make a profit when they in turn wholesale it, or they can make even more if they retail it in their store.
For example, right now the dealer bid price is roughly 2 bucks over spot for American Silver Eagles in tubes in BU condition. Dealers know if they have to buy from another dealer, they are going to pay more than when they buy from Joe Public. The local stores may pay 1 to 1.50 over spot from their customers, and when they resell to a wholesaler in the coin business, they can make 50 cents to 1 dollar per coin profit. This might now sound like much, but if they are buying hundreds of ounces at a time, it can add up fast. If the coin store has enough customers to buy their inventory (so the dealer rarely has to wholesale anything) they can make even more profit by selling to customers at retail prices, which is 3-3.50 over spot for silver eagles. So the coin store's profit is now 2 to 2.50 per ounce profit under this example.
Spot in bullion PMs is determined daily by the paper commodity markets (futures), it is also referred to as cash price in those markets (it is the delivery price for that time and date). On gold/silver bullion PMs, the bid and ask price dealers look at for anything are tied to the spot price, the only difference being a premium added, depending on rarity, supply and demand for that particular item, etc.
Jim
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