✅ SOLVED Whazit from CW battlefield?

[smokeythecat]

Two items: first is a cast round brass items, the metal is quite thick. It is threaded. I thought top to CS fuse but see no holes in the top. About 1.25" wide, I didn't measure it.

Second, is this a closer for a handbag or such? It is about 1/2" in length.

 

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[cmthunder]

Opening of second one has shape of key hole?

 

[smallfoot]

That bottom one is probably suspender or garter clip...

 

[Dug]

The second one may be a carpetbag closure. I have found them mounted on a thin iron strip which is what the fabric is sewn over.

 

[Mud Hut]

It seems to me that those little clips were off a Corset or Bustier similar to these.

 

[nhbenz]

I agree. Here’s another supporting example:

 

[smokeythecat]

Well, the clippy thingie is solved, thanks. I have found a few on CW sites before. Now for the brass!

 

[Fat]

It sure is an Industrial strength looking guarder strap attachment.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Since Mud Hut and nhbenz have already correctly identified the bustier/corset closure clip, I'll tackle the "brass ring."

It does resemble a sawed-off section of a threaded civil war artillery fuzeplug. But to be certain, I'll need you to provide precise measurment of its outside diameter and inside diameter. Also, need a photo showing the other side of it.

I can't for the life of me figure out the reason for doing it, but more than just a few examples of sawed-into-pieces brass artillery fuzeplugs have turned up at civil war sites. Having seen quite a noteworthy number of examples, I have no doubt that somebody was doing it during the war. I just can't figure out why. The only logical answer that comes to me is, the cut-to-pieces fuzeplug parts were going to be adapted for some other function. That function is the mystery.

It'd also help if you have access to a Thread-Gauge. US Hotchkiss and CS timefuze-plug threads are 12 threads per inch. The yankee Schenkl fuze had 10 threads per inch.

For anybody here who doesn't already know:
Yankee fuzeplugs were made of typical "yellow brass." Confederate fuzeplugs tended to be made of a high-copper content alloy of brass... which has an orange-ish/golden or pink color, depending on how high the percentage of copper in the alloy with the zinc. (Typical yellow brass is about 70% copper with 30% zinc... and what is called "red brass" is 90% copper with 10% zinc.)

 

[smokeythecat]

Twenty diggers walked past this just in 2020. I'll get measurements after the obligatory happy nap! It's been a way too busy morning.

 

[dozer dan]

If this was dug from a civil war battlefield and if it is in fact a garter belt clip then I’d have to assume it was lost by a northern soldier;-)

 

[smokeythecat]

There was a home there that burned during the battle. The brass thingie is 1 1/8" in diameter and the hole is 9/16". I scratched the metal on the inside, which had some, well, let's say its not a perfect casting and the color is dark pink/reddish. Not true yellow brass.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Smokeythecat wrote:
> The brass thingie is 1 1/8" in diameter and the hole is 9/16". I scratched the metal on the inside, which had some, well, let's say its not a perfect casting and the color is dark pink/reddish. Not true yellow brass.


Thanks for the measurements. The hole's diameter matches the diameter of the "top" of the (tapering smaller as it goes deeper) hole in a typical civil war paper timefuze adapter-plug. The object's outer diameter matches a Parrott fuzehole and also a British-made Whitworth fuzehole. Being made of "copperbrass" (high copper content brass) indicates a Confederate-made fuzeplug. Most of the similar-looking Civilian objects would be made of the usual "yellow brass" -- because that alloy is cheaper than high-copper-content brass.

Now I need to see a photo of the other side of the object... because it looks like the hole has a "shelf" encircling it. If so, that would exclude the object from being a civil war fuzeplug. The "shelf" could be an optical illusion in the photo you posted, but I want to be certain.

Also... is there any threading on the inside of the hole?

 

[smokeythecat]

Give me a minute. I have to "find it" again. The cat just came to sit down by me and knocked all my "toys" on the floor!

 

[smokeythecat]

More pics. Other side. Still has dirt on it.

TOP.

Bottom. No threads on inside.

Cat. But not the one that knocked everything off the couch this time.

 

[Davers]

Great learning lesson here , I hope you get this one figured out asap.

Oh I so glad to see The Cannon Ball Guy still posting & teaching .

I was worried as i've not been that active for the past 2 years .

Good Night

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thank you for providing the additional photos I requested. Sad to have to say, the one which shows a "shelf" encircling the bottom of the wide hole means the object is not part of an artillery fuze.

 

[ToddsPoint]

(Typical yellow brass is about 70% copper with 30% zinc... and what is called "red brass" is 90% copper with 10% zinc.)

I was a machinist in a valve factory and machined lots of brass of all types. I'd add that red brass also has silica in it which makes it hard to machine. The silica eats up your tools and I was using carbide. Gary

 

[CRUSADER]

It seems to me that those little clips were off a Corset or Bustier similar to these.

100% off of a 19th C whalebone corset

 

[pepperj]

Just for thought about brass and to go off the correct information CB supplied. 70/30 brass (yellow) is the same as a brass zipper, clock/watch movements/cases, ammo casings.
The red brass will like you stated Smokey has the reddish/pinkish colour to it. Old threaded pipe-joints, taps (old ones), threaded pipe valves.
Red brass will crumble when breaking/crushing the item and have a rough look to it.
Where as the 70/30 yellow will bend well before it will break, and the tear/cut will remain sharp edged looking.
Now this going back a few years and when dealing with tons of the stuff weekly I believe in the "red metal category-copper/brass" there was something like 85 different alloys the could be had.