What was Swifts definition of a River ?

[Ken S.]

This is a question that keeps coming to my mind. I've been doing some research on it . It might surprise one to know that it's not as simple as ya think. I was surprised.

 

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[Ken S.]

From the research I've done, It depends on what country you're from as to what a creek/river is. The definition of a creek changes more than the definition of river nation to nation and sometime within nations. I was amazed to find the info that I did.

 

[KY Hiker]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyds_Fork

I have seen the Guyandotte river near where my wifes extended family lives. It is not much wider than Floyd's Fork running through Jefferson County/Louisville. It is however, a much deeper channel so it can carry more water volume before leaving its banks. There are only a few spots I know of on Floyd's Fork that is more than waste high unless in a flood condition where it leaves its banks quickly and doubles or triples in width. Floyd's fork is considered a creek around Louisville, while the Guyandotte is considered a river. What threshold has to be overcome to be called a river is somewhat arbitrary in my experience. But that is limited to Green, Salt, Red, Guyandotte and Ohio rivers. It probably has more to do with the acres 'drained' than its width and depth?

The Three rivers usually mentioned in the various versions of Swift Journals

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyandotte_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanawha_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sandy_River_(Ohio_River_tributary)

and of interest...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_River

Consider how Swift and Co. crossed these rivers with mules and horses...and if they had a train of mules, the difficulty of that task. Finding historical fords on these rivers WILL show their path.

 

[Ken S.]

So A creek that's a 100+ yds wide and 80-100' deep with cliffs on both sides, Isn't actually a creek but in reality is a river if it drains enough acreage. Wonder if 100,000 acres is enough area

 

[Ken S.]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floyds_Fork

I have seen the Guyandotte river near where my wifes extended family lives. It is not much wider than Floyd's Fork running through Jefferson County/Louisville. It is however, a much deeper channel so it can carry more water volume before leaving its banks. There are only a few spots I know of on Floyd's Fork that is more than waste high unless in a flood condition where it leaves its banks quickly and doubles or triples in width. Floyd's fork is considered a creek around Louisville, while the Guyandotte is considered a river. What threshold has to be overcome to be called a river is somewhat arbitrary in my experience. But that is limited to Green, Salt, Red, Guyandotte and Ohio rivers. It probably has more to do with the acres 'drained' than its width and depth?

The Three rivers usually mentioned in the various versions of Swift Journals

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guyandotte_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanawha_River
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Sandy_River_(Ohio_River_tributary)

and of interest...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_River

Consider how Swift and Co. crossed these rivers with mules and horses...and if they had a train of mules, the difficulty of that task. Finding historical fords on these rivers WILL show their path.

By what the 3rd link you posted says the forks of the Sandy has to be at Louisa and can't be anywhere else. It says Sandy is approximately 29 miles long. When it forks at Louisa it is no longer Sandy but tributaries of Sandy.

 

[KY Hiker]

Yes, at least in modern times. When did the Levisa and Tug get their names? Obviously, after Swift's time...

 

[KY Hiker]

So A creek that's a 100+ yds wide and 80-100' deep with cliffs on both sides, Isn't actually a creek but in reality is a river if it drains enough acreage. Wonder if 100,000 acres is enough area

I don't know of a creek that is 100 yards wide or one that is 100 ft deep. Maybe there is one somewhere but I am unaware of it. I don't know how streams are classified or ponds/lakes for that matter.

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-river-and-creek/

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-stream-order-1435354

 

[Ken S.]

I don't know of a creek that is 100 yards wide or one that is 100 ft deep. Maybe there is one somewhere but I am unaware of it. I don't know how streams are classified or ponds/lakes for that matter.

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-river-and-creek/

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-stream-order-1435354

Paint Creek was such a creek before it was turned into a lake. All of it with the exception of about 7 miles from the river to where the dam is today. Just above the dam the water is 120' deep in the old creek channel. Paint creek drains in the neighborhood of 100,000 acres.

 

[Ken S.]

Yes, at least in modern times. When did the Levisa and Tug get their names? Obviously, after Swift's time...

Tug fork supposedly got its name from John Swift pulling silver bars across it with Tugs, hence the name Tug Fork. On the old maps a lot of them have the Levisa Fk. listed as the Louisa River.

 

[KY Hiker]

Tug fork supposedly got its name from John Swift pulling silver bars across it with Tugs, hence the name Tug Fork. On the old maps a lot of them have the Levisa Fk. listed as the Louisa River.

Seems I recall another story about how the Tug got its name, something about starving long hunters having to eat their shoes.

 

[Ken S.]

Seems I recall another story about how the Tug got its name, something about starving long hunters having to eat their shoes.

Notice I said supposedly !! It depends on who's telling the story, just like the journals. I would come closer to believing Boomers story about the Tug.

 

[Curtis]

I don't know when the definition came into being, but a river is just a creek that is more than 100 miles long...according to my great grandpa...we lived next to Pine creek in southern Ohio, it was 99 miles long(because of the twists and turns) and they wouldn't call t a river. haha ...Its probably less than 30 miles from its head to emptying into the Ohio river

 

[Ken S.]

I don't know when the definition came into being, but a river is just a creek that is more than 100 miles long...according to my great grandpa...we lived next to Pine creek in southern Ohio, it was 99 miles long(because of the twists and turns) and they wouldn't call t a river. haha ...Its probably less than 30 miles from its head to emptying into the Ohio river

yeah Curtis !! You went to an old grandad school too. Johns Creek they say is a 99 miles creek too. No where can I find that definition in any of the encyclopedia or on the net.

 

[KY Hiker]

Maybe that is an old school definition, like a country mile or a baker's dozen?

 

[Ken S.]

Maybe