What I suspect to be two blades. How did I do on the analysis?

[TXCreekWalker]

Hello again! Both of these were found in the same creek, but about 300 feet (its a wild guess) apart from each other. North Texas, Far north Dallas County almost near the Denton county line. Both are about 7 cm in length. This first one is somewhat thin, but the second one has some girth to it.

The first one looks like it saw quite a bit of use. It also has a stem that I am wondering might be a graver, or if this was how it was hafted, if it was a hafted piece.

This is the thicker one. It is a uniface, and it looks like it has a spokeshave opposite the cutting edge.

 

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[Older The Better]

You sure do find some odd ones. The first one with almost parallel sides would have me thinking square knife but don’t think they come with a stem. Second one possibly a backed knife except again I don’t know if they made a unifaced backed knife… maybe it’s just a piece of scrap they put an edge on to get the job done.

To the point below, it’s also entirely possible. I don’t hunt creeks and rarely find anything in the river so I don’t have the eye for creek chatter like some do.

 

[Relicgrubber]

I am of the opinion that neither one are artifacts. The chipping your seeing is creek chatter from bouncing around in swift waters after a heavy rain. Keep on looking, they are out there...

 

[dirstscratcher]

They may have been knapped specifically for the serrated edge. They're called dentates, useage ?

 

[CreekSide]

I hunt creeks 95% of the time. Doesn’t look like chatter to me. The serrated edges to me is a sign of a saw type tool. They look to thick to be blades. Might be scrapers with a saw edge for cutting cordage. I do find chert with chatter on it once in a while. I’d call them tools. Also the creeks I hunt people think they are small rivers. 8 ft high banks which do flow over a few times a year. The other day it had white caps in it as I was trying to look.

 

[CreekSide]

They may have been knapped specifically for the serrated edge. They're called dentates, useage ?

Let’s see some of your finds, brother

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

I hunted creeks for over 20 years, looks more like creek chatter from tumbling than from knapping.

 

[releventchair]

Looks about like my best efforts busting flint.

I don't like the material's charactoristic.
Doesn't mean someone else didn't try pressure flaking it and discard it after getting a crude edge on one side' knowing it wouldn't go any farther..


Just because of how the material is shaking out and not wanting to flake , I'm leaning towards keep looking.
But good eye on catching it!

 

[Relicgrubber]

It seems there are a few here that don"t understand what flake scars are or what they even look like.
Study this and understand it and you wont end up collecting a bunch of chipped up rocks...

 

[newnan man]

The serrated areas lack uniformity, some are even off the edge. I agree with just naturally damaged rocks.

 

[Older The Better]

Rocks don’t chip themselves either, if you find removals that lack cortex there has to be a physical explanation, whether man, creek, trampling, frost action. If I found those in one of my spots I’d be sure they were native, there’s too many removals on a concentrated area to be from a plow strike or trampling, and the only native flint comes in big brown crusty nodules or in big square blocks…. Like I said I don’t know creek chatter so I don’t speak on the subject and it very well could be, but for someone trying to put the pieces together I don’t fault them for seeing something in the pieces.

 

[TXCreekWalker]

Thank you everyone. I am going to keep these two because if the serrated edges are just creek chatter, then I have good examples of how such weathering can create something that looks like a stone tool. This will help me in identifying or ruling out future finds as artifacts. Or, if one day they should be authenticated as artifacts, then I still have them around.

The responses on this thread have informed me more about creek chatter, and researching the term more along with looking at other posts with find that have also been identified as creek chatter. I have been able to dismiss several other finds as being natural with much less ambiguity than these two.

On a side note, I just got a book by Lar Hothem with pictures of all kinds of specimens identified as artifacts. Is he a reliable source?

 

[Older The Better]

Here’s a similar… I think… piece that came out of a very productive site, high on a bluff, buried in limestone rubble. Non native material. Sometimes context is more important than obvious flake scars, which depending on how I hold the piece are visible or not

 

[dirstscratcher]

Let’s see some of your finds, brother

This isn't the greatest example but it's the only pic I have handy.

 

[newnan man]

Lar Hothem was an excellent author on Native American artifacts.

 

[CreekSide]

Thank you everyone. I am going to keep these two because if the serrated edges are just creek chatter, then I have good examples of how such weathering can create something that looks like a stone tool. This will help me in identifying or ruling out future finds as artifacts. Or, if one day they should be authenticated as artifacts, then I still have them around.

The responses on this thread have informed me more about creek chatter, and researching the term more along with looking at other posts with find that have also been identified as creek chatter. I have been able to dismiss several other finds as being natural with much less ambiguity than these two.

On a side note, I just got a book by Lar Hothem with pictures of all kinds of specimens identified as artifacts. Is he a reliable source?

He is my favorite author on artifacts. Save up and get the Paleo hardback it has all kinds of types with great pictures. The book is green.

 

[TXCreekWalker]

He is my favorite author on artifacts. Save up and get the Paleo hardback it has all kinds of types with great pictures. The book is green.

That is the one I got. You are correct, great pictures!

 

[hoka hey]

looks a heap like a rock to me

 

[CreekSide]

looks a heap like a rock to me

Everyone has an opinion which is fine. I find some crude artifacts and also some nice ones. Guess it depends on who made them and probably the weather cold or hot when made. I’m sure mine if I made them would fall under the crude and ugly.

 

[Blackfoot58]

I always wonder, we find some legit points in the creeks. We also find pieces with creek chatter. Couldn’t an item be both? An artifact that was lost in the creek and now has chatter on the original edge?