What happened to believing prospecting could make a income.

I

Idclare

Guest
? ? ?In the old days before all the regulations. there was no point worrying about flower gold. It could only bog down a operation designed to run vast amounts of materials such as in? hydraulicing or a dredging operation. But in them same days particularly around the grate depression there were many hew sifted out a bacon and beans existences. And that was when gold wasn?t worth much. Some made sufficient incomes in states that don?t have much gold. This would not have bean possible without a rockerbox to aid them.? But all that knowledge was lost in the first world war were the ones hew new of its value either were killed or returned after the war to find a booming industry that afforded everyone a job. During the war all mining was shut down. And when it reopened after the war, some did go back to mining but only in places that had the capacity to out way working at a job. Everyone was tired of starving, so prospecting? became a fools notion of making money.?
Exspect more postings on the subject of rocker boxes and flower gold from me.
 

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idclare:
If you check my post in "Are you A GPAA" you'll see where I mention a friend of mine who is RIGHT Now! Making a Full Time Living
By dredging AND!? ?:P With one of the small Bac Pac Dredges !
 

But all that knowledge was lost in the first world war were the ones hew new of its value either were killed or returned after the war to find a booming industry that afforded everyone a job. During the war all mining was shut down. And when it reopened after the war, some did go back to mining but only in places that had the capacity to out way working at a job.
Click to expand...

Well... actually, it was F.D.R and the Second World War that shut down every gold mine in the nation and put the workers to work making steel and nickel and other stuff for the war.

I know of a few people that still live on the mountain and make a life of mining.. but mostly that lifestyle has been made IMPOSSIBLE by the FOREST SERVICE... You cant even take a dump next to the river without getting fined... try cutting down riverside vegitation, moving large rocks on the bank... letting your water from a highbanker get back to the river... making a trail, making road access, doing a list of other stuff, all these things will get you in trouble...

So, I would have to say... the only thing that is preventing more people from the lifestyle that you are hinting at is the fact that the laws do not allow it. :-\

Of course, if you play by the rules, you can make some change, but you cant live on the claim and have a grand old miners life..

What you can do is what cptBill is talking about...
Go in, do your thing, follow the rules, go home and weigh your gold.
 

I'm not sure were to go with this now. Except to start with my own account. I can go out and find a grams in a day with my rockerbox . It's not allot but that can be consistently dun. With days that can be much better. What I'm trying to say here is there?s a lot of gold out there that if someone was to look for with a rockerbox they could make a living at it. Not a good living but one better than welfare. And your rite about all the regs. It spoils most attempts. But that is due to the lure of cores gold. Which exists mostly in streams Which to can be worked anywhere in season with non mechanical devises. Flower gold is literally every were. Like hill sides and benches. Which don?t have those same regs. Like a season saying when you can prospect. But using your own water and a non mechanical devise like a rockerbox,' plus not making a big mess'. One can at least in the off season find the necessary consistency to stay ahead. Out side the regulated ground.
 

I think this article pretty much sums up the current problem...

U.S. FOREST SERVICE THREATENS GOLD DREDGER WITH ARREST

Info Submitted By LARRY ARMSTRONG

On the first of September this year, federal law officers from the U.S. Forest Service Orleans District in Humbolt County, California issued Terry & Joanne McClure a citation for using a 4-inch dredge on their mining claim along the lower Salmon River in Siskiyou County, California. The McClures have a 2004 California suction dredge permit which allows suction dredging on that section of the Salmon River through the 15th of September.

Suction Dredging has been an ongoing mining practice along the Salmon River every season for at least the past 30 years. The activity is approved and regulated by the State of California. Suction dredging is being acknowledged as a ?non-significant surface disturbance? by each of the other District Rangers who manage the areas where we operate in the Klamath National Forest. Suction dredging was even classified as a ?non-significant impact? by the previous Ranger from the Orleans District, who retired in April of this year. In fact, he approved suction dredging as a ?non-significant? activity within the Orleans District for the 2004 dredging season before he retired.

But the new Acting Ranger in Orleans, Joyce Thompson, has since decided that any suction dredging or high-banking activity within her district is ?likely to cause significant surface disturbance.? She is prohibiting all dredging or high-banking activity along the lower Salmon River unless the miner submits to a very lengthy process that will take a year or (much) longer to approve.

When issuing the citation, the law officers threatened that if the McClures did not immediately stop dredging and remove all of their dredging equipment from their mining claim, they would be arrested and all their gear (including their vehicle) would be impounded.

This flies in the face of controlling case law by the 9th Circuit (1999, U.S v. Shumway) that confirmed a mining claim is ?property in the fullest sense of the word??and that the locator of a mining claim ?could not be evicted unless their claim was a sham or otherwise invalid?? In Shumway, the 9th Circuit clearly ruled that the Forest Service has a right ?to manage surface resources and allow others to use surface resources, though these uses shall be such as not to endanger or materially interfere with prospecting, mining or processing operations or uses reasonably incident thereto.? ??the Forest Service may regulate use of National Forest lands by holders of unpatented mining claims, but only to the extent that the regulations are reasonable and do not impermissibly encroach on legitimate uses incident to mining??

Understandably, with the only other option of being thrown in jail and having most of their belongings seized by the federal government, the McClures withdrew from their mining claim. They said that the four federal law officers did not leave until all of their dredging equipment was packed up the hillside (2 ? hours for the McClures to do it while the law officers stood by and watched) and packed in their vehicle.

I hope everyone reading this can grasp the seriousness of this; the McClures were forced off their own mining claim under threat of being arrested by the U.S. Forest Service!

We have seen this situation brewing for several months. In anticipation, we began accepting donations for a legal defense fund several months ago. While the initial drive produced encouraging results, donations have since fallen off, and we are not in a very strong position to help the McClures through this difficult ordeal.

We are continuing to request a donation of $10 or more from every prospector who can help. Please send what you can. Please make out your check to: The New 49?ers, Legal Fund. If your donation reaches us on or before 18 September, we are issuing a single raffle ticket for every dollar that is donated to a legal fund-raising drawing. The grand prize for the drawing consists of an incredible ceramic coffee set (6-piece setting) that I shipped back from Thailand this past winter. The set is inlaid with pure gold; and believe me, it is truly beautiful.

Steve and Kathy of American Prospector in Medford Oregon (541 282-0900) also have worked out something with Tesoro and Whites Electronics to donate two more prizes to our fund-raiser: (1) Tesoro Eldorado metal detector, and; (2) Whites Prism-4 metal detector.

But I want to remind you that this is not about a prize drawing. This is about unreasonable, heavy-handed regulation by a district ranger who clearly has personal convictions against mining; enough that she is willing to go against the laws created by congress that require her to support and encourage mineral development on the public lands.

There is a good opportunity here to challenge unreasonable over-regulation by this district ranger. Just as Lex & Waggener challenged the improper actions of the USFS several years ago and pushed them back, the McClures have a very good opportunity to push back unreasonable USFS policies on the Orlean?s District.

This is also not only about the McClure?s. It is about all of our rights, and it is about the future of how we will be managed by the USFS.

I cannot go into all the reasons why this case is so important in this newsletter. Trust me; there is a lot at stake here, and the situation opens a great opportunity for all miners in the west who have mining claims on USFS lands.

But it takes money to secure the services of good lawyers!

Please send in donations now. Whatever you can spare. We will use them to help the McClures hire just the right attorneys represent them (and therefore, all miners) in this case. The clock is ticking in the litigation. Please do not delay!

The New 49?ers Legal Fund
P.O. Box 47, Happy Camp, CA 96039

Best wishes to everyone,

Dave McCracken
General Manager, New 49?er Prospecting Association
Click to expand...
 

parttime miner:
Guess what?
? ::)? I DON'T WANT TO YOU TAKE A? ?"DUMP" ? ? NEXT TO A RIVER EITHER!?(as per your post of March 07, 05:04:34pm)? ? ? ? :P
?
? ? ::)? ?I sure hope that YOU understand the reasoning?? ?::)
I may use that water .... AND!? My "Coffee" already tastes bad enough!
Some people and there are lots & lots of them,? have no idea of when enough is enough!
Make one road or a thousand roads!
Cut down one bush or a thousand !
IE:
"The TOTAL IDIOT! who set the fires in Southern CA. to attact attention, because he was lost!
How much does a map/compass or a GPS cost?
How many thousands upon thousands of acres did he burn down ?? ?>:(
How many thousands of wildlife died a horrible DEATH, Because he was lost!? ?:-\? ?>:(
DO? you? want? people? like? him ? ????? cutting down brush, taking a "dump" in your river, making? roads? all over He_ _ ! and Back? ??
? ?:-\? ?I sure don't!? ? :-\
If The U.S. Govt. doesn't want to SHOOT HIM! ? ? l do it for them, and! Not charge for the bullet!
AND!? ?>:(? Don't THINK! That I am not serious!? ?>:(

You know, Each year, I camp out, actually I LIVE OUT!, ? for months at a time!
I NEVER Have a Camp Fire!
Like the saying goes;
? ? " One tree will make a Million Matches. ONE MATCH will burn down a MILLION TREES!" ?
 

Ok, CptBill I hear what you are saying..

but I cant say that I agree that simply making regulations is "The Way".

If you use the logic above in all aspects of life then people couldn't drive cars, have children, or for that matter even exit their house. For, all of those things have negative possibilities...

I think its time for the people to take control of the woods and have an all volinteer Forest Service. If we had citizens working in the forest instead of Reps. of the Govt. we would see real positive change...

What other solution is there? To gate off the rest of the access roads and make everyone get a wilderness permit to take a walk?

I dont see this as being good...

Are they protecting our national forests FOR the public? or FROM the public?
:P
 

In answer to the original question I recently saw a post that an Australian prospector usually finds about 100 ounces of gold a year detecting. Apparently some people(although not many in this country) can still make a living prospecting.

I had hoped that all folks on this forum(as this is a treasure hunting/relic.coin.prospecting forum) would be united here as public and private land useage issues affects all of us here.The issue is not irresponsible land useage but the publics right to use public lands period.

The environmental war in this country is about Preservation versus Conservation and it concerns both public and private lands. The preservationist concept is to preserve ALL lands and any disturbance should not be permitted. It does not make any difference if you own the land. Current preservationist laws can prohibit you from farming and developing your own property.

Preservationists are as thick as thieves in the US Forest Service and their efforts to remove recreational mining from public lands is well documented. Again the land must be preserved and any form of mining stopped. Their viewpoint is that the publics useage of public lands causes environmental damage. So the publics useage of public lands should be severely restricted or eliminated.

The best way to get the public off of public lands is to simply remove the access(roads). This area is environmental sensitive so we have removed the access. Why do you think there is so much opposition to logging beside the fact that they are hurting trees? A main preservationists goal is for road removal on public lands and logging CREATES roads. ?Only when the public is finally corralled into designated areas can responsible preservationists truly enjoy the nature experience.

If you own a metal detector you are not immune from the preservationists- Remember the fallout from that Virginia Bill?

Fight for your rights to use and have access to public lands or in the future public lands will be FEDERAL lands and the public is not invited.

George
 

To ALL Concerned:
Here's a neat little saying!
? ? ? ? ? ?"If it isn't Grown, it has to be Mined!"
What do all of you finkey? :o? tree huggers, greens and preservationists think about that?? ;D
Try driving your car w/o mined steel/gas & oil!? ?:P
 

To many today don't know how to reach the higher plains of reasoning that comes from living in the woods. ''NOT JUST CAMPING'' It takes a reason that isent really there any more. If you follow all the laws.
Using my own account of things. I would have to say that I've learned the better truth. I'm capable of having a fire safely anywhere. Even in a hay stack. And berry every thing that isent meant to burn. It is part of wood craft to know these things. And there isent enough people left learning it to take away all the laws. Most are just trying to uses the woods and not learning from it while they do. 'It means facing the dangers of mistakes', and learning from them. 'SO THAY DON"T HAPPEN'.
 

Now there is a great job for the Forest Service... to educate...

Maybe when ranger Joe strolls up on your camp, he should spend his time teaching about how to do less damage to the forest and still enjoy your rights, instead of questioning you being there...


But, back to the original question... I'd say that your rockerbox idea (or even a small dredge) would be a fine way to make some money.
Just make sure to cover your tracks and have a copy of the laws with you for reference.

You are still legally allowed to discover a mining claim and that mean that you could discover one anywhere within national forest lands (undeveloped/unclaimed), it doesn't need to have road access... and you have something like 60-90 days to file your discovery with the recorders office and BLM if you want to make it official.

The one thing that makes small scale mining look impossible from an outside prospective is the secrecy of the trade. No real miner will ever tell you how much he found, where he found it, and how long it took him. He also wont likely give you good hints on where to find your own. He wont likely tell you how to go about getting a claim either... but they usually have a claim for sale.

This means that you must read as much info as possible and learn from experience.
And take most everything you hear with a grain of salt... especially when someone tells ya that "all the gold is gone from there..."

I'd say that mining is 99% research and 1% moving dirt...
or, you'll end up being the guy that fanatically starts to dig up the new campsite with a pick-axe once the car rolls to a stop...
 

Hey!
Parttime_miner:
Did you see the photo of the back of my Jeep Wagoneer and equipment trailer?? ???
That's why.... ;D
They don't ask me? ?::) what I am doing any more!? ?::)
 

Hey!
Parttime_miner:
Did you see the photo of the back of my Jeep Wagoneer and equipment trailer? Huh
That's why.... Grin
They don't ask me Roll Eyes what I am doing any more! Roll Eyes
Click to expand...

I missed that photo... but I'd like to know your trick!
(let me guess... a "Beware of my 44" sticker?)

I'd have to say that since they have been cutting budgets, I have seen a lot less of the FS in my neck of the woods...
Last summer I only passed them on the way into town for supplies. They didnt seem to go more than a couple miles up the river.
So, I hope that they take more pay cuts, and only work 10am-3pm ... long enough to collect their toll boxes... and point the tourists to the nearest facilities.
;D
 

parttime_miner said:
Now there is a great job for the Forest Service... to educate...
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I wasn?t referring to being told. but to knowing your own truth.
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Maybe when ranger Joe strolls up on your camp, he should spend his time teaching about how to do less damage to the forest and still enjoy your rights, instead of questioning you being there...
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? When I'm dun with a camp site. No one would know except for my tracks and a few other unavoidable markings that I was even there. Because I've had to learn how to disappear. I live in Washington state.
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But, back to the original question... I'd say that your rockerbox idea (or even a small dredge) would be a fine way to make some money.
Just make sure to cover your tracks and have a copy of the laws with you for reference.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
? In most districts of this state there is a varying one to two month window they allow for active prospecting. That?s any, and all!! Mechanical or not. But thankfully that?s only in waterways. Its because of these strict regs I was forest into looking for flower. But probably wouldn?t have if it wasn?t for some ore I found. It never paid out. But it did give me my rockerbox. by giving me a cheap way to concentrate it. The rockerbox I designed is totally different than any I've ever seen. Its light, It has away of showing individual samples value, and it classifies with out having to dump a basket. And come some time soun I'm going to go get it notarized and sell one of them here in the classifieds section. I think this is a perfect place to see what its worth.? ? ?
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You are still legally allowed to discover a mining claim and that mean that you could discover one anywhere within national forest lands (undeveloped/unclaimed), it doesn't need to have road access... and you have something like 60-90 days to file your discovery with the recorders office and BLM if you want to make it official.

The one thing that makes small scale mining look impossible from an outside prospective is the secrecy of the trade. No real miner will ever tell you how much he found, where he found it, and how long it took him. He also wont likely give you good hints on where to find your own.? He wont likely tell you how to go about getting a claim either... but they usually have a claim for sale.
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You have no idea how tight lipped it can be in this state. But I really can't blame them. People hew you don't know working your area can leave big messes and brake laws that cause more restrictions and closer scrutiny.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This means that you must read as much info as possible and learn from experience.
And take most everything you hear with a grain of salt... especially when someone tells ya that "all the gold is gone from there..."

I'd say that mining is 99% research and 1% moving dirt...
or, you'll end up being the guy that fanatically starts to dig up the new campsite with a pick-axe once the car rolls to a stop...
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Thanks to all!! for your open opinion, and insightful thoughts. When we disagree, we learn were we have a common goal as much as that that divides us.? ''Heres'' to freedom.
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Click to expand...
 

Parttime_miner:
? :D? Nope!
Nothing that sinister!? ;) (reply #12)
I simply wrote cross the back window of my Jeep Wagoneer and also, on the tailgate of my equipment trailer;
"I'm Prospecting" ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? In Big Yellow words!
AND!
Then! I try to make sure that they are pointing toward the entrance to camp!
Seems to have worked,? ?;)? I don't get those dumb ? ?::)? questions any more!
But!
That hasn't stopped the BLACK UNMARKED HELIOS from buzzing camp!
 

Chuck (idclare), I am considered an "Old Timer" now and an "Old Sourdough". I can tell people that are new to the profession by their lack of understanding of prospecting terminology.

1. It is "FLOUR GOLD" not flower. Gold has nothing in common with flowers that I know of, but there is humongous amounts of gold just as fine as the flour you make your bisquits out of!!!

2. Regardless of what anyone says, there has ALWAYS been men and women that have made a living from getting gold, illegal or not. Gold prospecting and gettting it has never ceased for one minute in the United States of America. Yeah, the "Big Boys" shut down their ops, picked up their toys and went to foreign countries to play for awhile until they could come back home. But many of the small prospectors & miners just kept right on going and selling their gold to jewelers and black market sources. Gotta eat, right? And if that's all you know how to do, ya can't blame 'em! ;D Comanchero
 

No talk of POO'S LOL. Just being allowed to "take a dump by the creek" LOL.
 

ghostminer said:
No talk of POO'S LOL. Just being allowed to "take a dump by the creek" LOL.
Click to expand...
Maybe the reason is that there is no "Location" just the "Discovery" as well the scale of the operation.
Do bears take a 'Dump in the woods'......LOL not the "Forest"

Appears that the mineral deposit has a "Discovery point".

Hard to "Locate" when there is only one point and hard to tell the shape and size of the "Mineral deposit" from just one point.
 

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