What gun is this?

[Joel709]

I have had this gun in the family for a couple of decades now and never really looked into it! I am new today to this website and looking forward to finding out about my treasure! The gun obviously no longer fires, but the trigger and the rod still are functional, it's very heavy and have no marking on, so I have no clue! I hope you can help!

 

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[DCMatt]

Can you post a pic of the end of the barrel with a coin or some common object next to it so we can determine the bore?

It looks like a musket that has been converted to a shotgun - not uncommon in the 19th C.

DCMatt

 

[Joel709]

Because I'm English this is a 2 pence coin! Hope this helps

 

[DCMatt]

2 pence is about the same size as a US quarter. English... that's another clue.

Any idea if the bore is smooth or rifled?

DCMatt

 

[Joel709]

From what I can see its a smooth bore, but possibly once was rifled but worn down by either man or usage

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Your gun appears to be a percussion-type muzzleloader musket, which dates from approximately the 1830s to 1870s. The shape of the "lockplate" which held the (missing) hammer is extremely similar to the shape of the British Model-1853 Enfield Rifle's lockplate (see photo below), but is a bit different in small but important ways.

If the barrel's bore is smooth (no rifling-grooves inside the barrel), it is a Smoothbore percussion-type musket, which means it dates from the 1830s/40s. The ramrod in the photo is for a Smoothbore, but it might not be the one which originally came with that musket.

 

[Joel709]

Blimy that sounds amazing! If you have anymore info keep me updated! I'm not intending to sell it, but how much would this get from a good auction?

 

[huntsman53]

Your' Black Powder muzzle loading rifle or shotgun (can't really tell which from the pics) is a Match Lock ignition system based Muzzleloader and If original, is rare! It is hard to say who made it and when but it was probably made in Europe in the early to mid 1800's but could quite possibly be of earlier or later manufacture. Take it to a professional Gunsmith with knowledge of muzzle loading rifles and shotguns that used the Wheel Lock and Match Lock Ignition systems and hopefully they can identify the Maker and the period it was made.

Good luck and congrats on a nice and possibly rare heirloom!


Frank

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Because that musket has a "nipple" (also called the "cone") for ignition, I'm sticking with my ID of it as a percussion-ignition musket. I've never seen a matchlock with a nipple.
http://www.silcom.com/~vikman/isles/scriptorium/firearm/match.html
Matchlock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But as always, if I'm incorrect, I genuinely do want somebody correct me -- with solidly-documented information, please.

 

[l.cutler]

I agree, it is not a matchlock. I am not even sure it is a real gun, it looks like it may be a toy or decorator piece made with a mixture of real and replica parts.

 

[Joel709]

It deffo seems like a real gun considering the weight and quality of the making, I have no idea though! Love finding out about it!

 

[huntsman53]

Because that musket has a "nipple" (also called the "cone") for ignition, I'm sticking with my ID of it as a percussion-ignition musket. I've never seen a matchlock with a nipple.
http://www.silcom.com/~vikman/isles/scriptorium/firearm/match.html
Matchlock - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But as always, if I'm incorrect, I genuinely do want somebody correct me -- with solidly-documented information, please.

You are right! I meant to say Wheel Lock Ignition system and not Match Lock. I took a Hydro for the pain in my' left butt and lower back area due to my' left pelvis being out of place and apparently wasn't thinking right when I posted. That's what I get for looking at various Match lock and Wheel Lock Ignition systems too much before posting! And yes, it is a Wheel Lock Percussion conversion system.

Note the almost square metal peg sticking out of the lock plate. This was used to cock the Wheel Lock and place the trigger in the firing position by use of a tool with an almost square hole in it.


Frank

 

[gunsil]

Huntsman, you are still off, it is not a wheel lock. The square peg on the side of the lock plate is where the hammer mounted. It is a percussion firearm, and if it was converted from anything it would have been converted from a flintlock, not a wheel or match lock. Look at all of the above ignition systems on actual firearms, not pictures on the internet and you will learn more about them and their differences. Quality gun shows are an excellent place to see such guns in person, although you will have to go to several before you see original wheel or matchlock pieces.

 

[BosnMate]

Pretty fancy tang for an Enfield. Just looking at the barrel tang makes me think it was a civilian gun, and I also think it was a full stock and the wood has been sawed off, or it's a home made replacement stock. My thoughts tend toward a parts gun, There is a lack of ramrod pipes, and the lack of an entry thimble, make me think amateur work, as well as the barrel bands appear to me to be an addition, not original. The more I look at it, the more it looks like an amateur built a parts gun. The lock plate looks like it's off an Enfield, and was never designed to fit that drum and nipple, the wood work around the lock and the work on the forearm looks very amateurish to me. I hesitate to make a guess on the value, but in the States it wouldn't bring a lot of money.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Looking at it, it does appear to be a gun assembled from parts. The stock seems like it may have originally been a flintlock, based on the gap in front of the drum. The drum is a bit odd, I looked at a lot of English muskets and didn't find one (yet) with that particular shaped drum. The lock itself looks like and 1862 Tower Musket lock, are there any markings on it at all? Or on the barrel? If you can get a photo of any proof marks stamped on the barrel, and a photo of the lock straight on (and right side up) that might help id it.

 

[huntsman53]

Huntsman, you are still off, it is not a wheel lock. The square peg on the side of the lock plate is where the hammer mounted. It is a percussion firearm, and if it was converted from anything it would have been converted from a flintlock, not a wheel or match lock. Look at all of the above ignition systems on actual firearms, not pictures on the internet and you will learn more about them and their differences. Quality gun shows are an excellent place to see such guns in person, although you will have to go to several before you see original wheel or matchlock pieces.

You are right! I did not see that the hammer is missing and where the percussion nipple is mounted, it looked similar to some simple Wheel Lock systems. Sorry for my missing this and giving the wrong information! With the amount of pain that I am in, I rush into things, don't study the item clearly and sometimes don't think clearly but that is not an excuse.

Oh and I almost forgot! I am not trying to be smart but I do know guns and don't have to go to another Gun Show to look at guns as I have attended hundreds of Guns Shows and even sold at 30 or 40 Gun Shows! I've been shooting and hunting since I was 6 years old, have owned guns most of my 60 years of life, served almost 5 1/2 years in the U.S. Army where just one of my' MOS' and was an Armorer and I have shot most of the weapons assigned to an Armored Tank Battalion as well as most of the weapons assigned to a West German Infantry Unit.


Frank