What do you think this represents??

[larson1951]

I see this pattern on pottery rims over and over
I have buckets and boxes of pottery rim pieces and many of them have this same design on them
I think it represents the rainbow
I now thank you all in advance for your opinion, one highly respected friend has an idea this could be water (waves)

 

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[GL]

Nice rims! beautiful work the Indians in your area were very talented.

 

[uniface]

Whether it IS or not, I have no idea (having no interest in pottery to begin with). But I've often encountered the term, "corded ware" in pottery contexts.

What your looks like is woven (twisted) cord/string used to impress that design into the rim part before it was fired.

Why ? Maybe for a better grip (like checkering on a gun stock). Maybe for pretty.

Who knows ?

 

[bravowhiskey]

Nice shards Larson. Is there a large body of water near where they were found? A large enough body that would get some big waves? Like a lake? If not maybe by a particular group with a pension for that design. (their mothers and their mothers taught them the same.) Certainly agree with Uniface that it potentially served a purpose beyond decorative. Grip enhancer would fit the bill.
Curious thing, for sure.
Good luck,
BW

 

[GL]

The pitiful few pieces of pottery I've found look as if they were mottled with pine straw brushes.

 

[Tnmountains]

Whether it IS or not, I have no idea (having no interest in pottery to begin with). But I've often encountered the term, "corded ware" in pottery contexts.

What your looks like is woven (twisted) cord/string used to impress that design into the rim part before it was fired.

Why ? Maybe for a better grip (like checkering on a gun stock). Maybe for pretty.

Who knows ?

Yep pattern was made on a paddle sometiimes wrapped with cord. Each site would have a little diff design. The pottery got reat greasy and this gave you a grip like he said. If its random lines its called incised usually made with a stick. Stamped it what it looks like .Probably a hemp cord.
Your site is late woodland right? Beautiful stuff you need to frame it. Thanks for showing.

 

[larson1951]

I know how the marks were made
my question was the rainbow patterns meaning
it only occurs on about one out of 50 or 60 rims
as far as designs go, there are hundreds and hundreds of designs in this field so I know the site did not have a special design
I will post some more designs
as far as for grip I don't think most of these pots were moved around a lot because about half of them were the size of a 5 gallon bucket

 

[coteau]

I don't know what the designs represent, but it's a common design.

Here's a pic of pottery, this kind of pottery was made from A.D. 1450-1600

 

[Tnmountains]

Could be a rainbow? Looks like one. I was saying about the pottery due to what I know of around here. A village seperated by as much as a mile here could have an entirely diffrent pattern pottery but same age. Your area is a lot diffrent but I sure enjoy seeing your finds.

 

[coteau]

Here's a little information about Le Beau ware pottery made by the Mandans. The Hidatsa Indians also made this style of pottery, but they lived further north from your area (north of the Square Buttes).

One of the distinctive technological achievements of the Mandans was their mastery of pottery manufacture. During the period A.D. 1450-1600 Mandan pottery became very sophisticated and highly uniform in construction and appearances. Typical Mandan pottery of this period is known by archaeologists as Le Beau ware. The presence of Le Beau ware can be used to trace the influence of the Mandans during this period. A typical Le Beau ware vessel was a large, globular pot decorated about the upper rim and orifice. The wall of the vessel was especially thin and the paste very compact and well-fired, attesting to the technological excellence of Mandan craftpersons. Mandan vessels typically had a high, smoothly recurved S-shaped rim. The wall of the pot curved gracefully inward at the neck, slightly outward above the neck, and inward again at the vessel mouth. Any vessels other than those with a gentle, high S-rim shape were very rare in Mandan sites of this period. Almost without exception, decoration consisted of a series of parallel lines made by twisted cordage pressed into the face of the rim below the vessel mouth. Typically, many very small diameter cord impressions would be used. The common stylistic motif was a band of parallel, horizontal lines interrupted by curved rainbow patterns, with these patterns centered on nodes or bumps protruding outward from the vessel rim. Some vessels were decorated on the shoulders with patterns of incised lines.

Source: "people of the Willows: The Prehistory and early history of the Hidatsa Indians", by Stanley Ahler. 1991

 

[larson1951]

yes Runtee, you are describing the kind of pottery I find
you last post says it all!
thank you very much
I think this stuff is interesting
I will try to keep this post going by finding some more pieces and posting them

 

[mickey]

in the end, i'm not sure that even the indians making the designs could tell you what the various designs represented. i like to think that they made them with a certain design because that is how their mothers and grandmothers made them (1 slice in the pie to let out steam, and another because that is how your mom did it). i once asked an archaeologist if he thought that the designs were an artistic expression, but he did not think they were. i like to think that they used a certain design because it was pleasant to the eye, and could possibly (as others have suggested) identify a certain group. i would like to have a "field guide" to pottery types which shows all of the known rim designs and their age. i have books showing point styles, stone tools, slate types, but no book that shows a chronological representation of pottery styles of various regions of the u.s.a. if anyone knows of one, let me know. thanks for letting me vent. ps, i dont know about you guys, but i am getting cabin fever. the corn is too high and the soy beans are too thick to find anything. i might have to take up metal detecting! lol.

 

[larson1951]

mickey, I have a book that dates pottery by design like that
I will try to find it

 

[RGINN]

They're cool finds Larson1951. They look like mountains to me, or hills.

 

[larson1951]

I think the hill idea is possible, but there are no mountains around here
but the hiill does make sense

 

[RGINN]

When you see the painted stripe around the bottom of the tipi, with the round white circles, the circles represent puff balls on the prairie.

 

[larson1951]

RGINN, where are the tipi's you are mentioning?

 

[naturegirl]

Did they make certain designs because they were pleasant to the eye, or because they were pleasant to make? I've wondered about this to. If it was a stamped design, maybe pleasant to the eye, or societal. If it was freehand, I wonder if it was more expressive of the individual. How many of you doodle the same thing over and over? It's a pleasing motion. Maybe a combination of function(grip), expression(just feels right to make this mark), and means of identifing culture, (we make them this way). Human brains are complicated, multi-faceted things, I can see all this coming into the mind of the person who set out to preform this task. just wondering.

ng

 

[RGINN]

Sorry, Larson1951, guess I threw you a curve. Tipis are set up at pow-wows now and also used for peyote ceremonies. The church tipis are just regular without any painting on them. Sometimes you will see tipis with designs painted on them at powwows. Many times these are designs that were passed down in the family and have particular significance to the owner. Sometimes these designs told the story of the owner or were received in a dream. I lived in an 18ft. canvas tipi for 5 years. I never received any dream that told me to paint it. I did get the idea that putting red and black streamers from the tips of the poles, besides from scaring away birds, would protect me from storms. And it did work. And still does work, for me, anyway. I haven't been given anything that protects me from snowstorms, though.