What bullets were fired in the 1863 Springfield?

[Breezie]

Originally this post was to find out what kind of trigger guard this was. It was solved quickly. Today, I was wondering, what .58 bullets were fired in the Springfield? I'm assuming Enfield and 3-Ring Minies. Is that correct and were there others?


(Original Post)
Hey Gang, Does anyone know what type of musket this trigger guard could have belonged? Thanks so much! Breezie

 

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[daroofa]

Re: What kind of gun?

1863 Springfield maybe

 

[ivan salis]

Re: What kind of gun?

looks like a match to me.

 

[Breezie]

Re: What kind of gun?

Oh, goodie! Thanks for the quick reply, and I'll mark this one SOLVED. Breezie

 

[kuger]

Re: What kind of gun?

Great I.D,and fantastic find Breezie!!!

 

[dcinffxva]

Re: What kind of gun?

The Models 1855, 1861, 1863 and Richmonds all used essentially the same trigger assemblies. Here is an 1861 trigger

And here are the models they fit

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: What kind of gun?

I do think Breezie's relic is from a Springfield, or perhaps a Richmond ...but close examination of the triggers shown in the photos of model-1861 and model-1863 Springfields reveals that neither of them is Breezie's trigger. Note the shape of the flange immediately behind the finger-curve part of the trigger, and more importantly, atop it.

The flange atop Breezie's trigger has a 30-degree slope downward toward the trigger's rear. It doesn't do that on the model-1861 and model-1863.

Unfortunately I do not have a photo of a model-1855 or Richmond trigger-assembly to see if either one of those is a match with Breezie's trigger.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: What kind of gun?

1863 Springfield maybe

Great ID

 

[Breezie]

Bump to new question.

 

[ivan salis]

the normal civil war military load for a springfeild rifle * was a 500 grain conical type 3 ringer minie ball over 66 grains of FF sized blackpowder -- they used percussion caps to ignite the powder charge.

 

[Breezie]

the normal civil war military load for a springfeild rifle * was a 500 grain conical type 3 ringer minie ball over 66 grains of FF sized blackpowder -- they used percussion caps to ignite the powder charge.

Thank you Ivan for that detailed information. So no other .58 CW bullet was used in the Springfield except the 3-Ring Minie; that's interesting. Breezie

 

[ivan salis]

well in a pinch - I think that any 58 cal bullet that fit down the its barrel might have been used ---- but the NORMAL ROUND for it was a 500 grain 3 ringer conical type 58 cal over 66 grains of FF sized blackpowder

 

[timekiller]

Springfield Rifled Musket Model 1855 or 1861 .58 Caliber

Choosing your rifle is both a matter of your impression, and a matter of economy. You may wish to portray a soldier who was been in the ranks before the War, or one who enlisted at the outset of the conflict. In the first case, the Model 1855 might be more appropriate, the Model 1861 in the latter. However, be advised that reproductions of the Model 1855 can be considerably more expensive than the Model 1861.



The .58 caliber Model 1855 was the state-of-the-art rifle issued to the Regular Army from 1857-1861 – the first U.S. military rifle firing the .58 caliber Minie bullet. These where produced by both the Harpers Ferry Armory (12,158) and the Springfield Armory (47,115). Early models (1857 to around 1859) have a long range rear sight, and brass forend cap (the ArmiSport reproduction is basically correct in this regard). After 1859, the forend cap was changed to iron and the rear sight was changed to the two-leaf version also seen in the 1861 Rifled Musket (the EuroArms version is almost correct – the forend cap should be changed to iron and re-dated to 1859, 1860 or 1861). The other major difference between the 1855 and 1861 Models was the Maynard primer system on the lock of the Model 1855.

Pictures



The Model 1861 was the principal rifled weapon of the Civil War. By the last year of the war, most Federal Infantry were armed with this rifle. Approved by the Army Ordnance Board in May of 1860, some 265,129 of them were produced at the Springfield Armory in Springfield, Massachusetts. Thousands of contract muskets were patterned after this weapon.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Breezie, a great many variations of .58-caliber Minie-balls were used in the Model 1863 Springfield rifle. Most of those varieties did have 3 grooves. (Technically, they are grooves, not rings - which are raised, but relics diggers have been calling them "rings" for so many years that it's nearly impossible now to get them to change the lingo.)

I assume your question means what bullets the yankees fired out of the '63 Springfields. As you know, the Confederates captured many thousands from the yankees, and of course then fired various versions of CS-made minies from them.

To answer your question, rather than go into all the variations of US-made 3-groove minies, I'll just list the very most common US .58-caliber bullets for the 1863 Springfield. If you went metal-detecting in a 1863/64 yankee camp or fortification, most of the .58s you'd find are (listed in order of "commonality":
1- "generic" 3-groove minie (many variations in groove-depth, shape of "nose," and shape of base-cavity)
2- Williams "Bore Cleaner" bullet, Type 3
3- "Regulation" minie by Williams (has 3 flat-bottomed grooves, a conical cavity, and a roundish nose, was previously but incorrectly called Harpers Ferry minie)

In 1861-63 "Western Theater" sites (which during the civil war meant any states between the East Coast states and the Mississippi River), you'd also find a lot of .577 Enfield minies in yankee sites ...because (contrary to popular belief) the yankees did issue a lot of Enfield ammo to their "Western" troops, for use in either a Springfield or an Enfield rifle.

 

[Breezie]

Wow! Thanks to everyone for all the great information. I've copied/pasted it in my MSWord file. I learn something new every time I come to TN. Breezie

 

[NHBandit]

Same triggerguard assembly was used on the early Springfield "Trapdoor" rifles. They were built using alot of left over Civil War Springfield parts but took a .45-70 metallic cartridge and were used in the Indian Wars. Custers troops at Little Big Horn carried them. http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/trapdoor-springfield-45-70-musket-rifle-trigger