Well I hate to burst everyones bubble on the FL thing, but ....

[Tom_in_CA]

Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Sounds like word changes make clear that it wasn't and isn't casual beach or park goer hobbyists they were/are after. It is for the "big game" hunters, heavy equipment users, and all such "trove" type recoveries and historically sensitive site stuff they were after.

The removal of the "all land" wording apparently fixes it. And if someone is still skittish, just print this out, and carry it with you, for any busy-body on the beach who still thinks you're snared with your 1960 memorial penny:

http://detectingrights.com/florida-sb868-hb591.php

 

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[jeff of pa]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Thank you Tom !

Be sure to add this in a few of the other Threads on this subject

 

[ron lord]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Give Tom a browny butten , Someone else that know what this law is, for Thank Tom. Ron Lord

 

[lostcauses]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Thanks Tom.

 

[lookindown]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Thanks Tom...I hope everyones calls and e mails to the politicians havent drawn unwanted negative attention to our hobby.

 

[biggmike]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Thanks Tom...I hope everyones calls and e mails to the politicians havent drawn unwanted negative attention to our hobby.

Tell me about it.... With all the people going nut over this non-issue they may have made the government take a harder look at what we do and wonder if they should regulate it..... I hope not

 

[hobbit]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

Folks, the "any lands" clause being struck out is a red herring. That part of the bill would have extended the prohibition on excavation and removal of "archaeological specimens" to include all private land AS WELL as ALL Public Land in the state of Florida.

I suggest you do a little vetting of the "authorities" you are touting as experts on this issue. The "Task Force for Metal Detecting Rights" (impressive sounding name, I admit), is a small group of New York City metal detectorists. That's it. They have no experience in Florida Law whatsoever. In fact, they make no claim to having any legal experience whatsoever. Their evidence for stating that FL 868 is a "good law" for metal detecting, is one conversation with a Florida Legislative spokesman. This is the list of the Task Force's "successes" touted on their website:

In 2011, the New York City Department of Parks and Recreation, closed another major park to metal detecting, Clove Lakes Park. In addition, they added a condition to the 2011 permits, which the metal detecting community feels in intolerable, and was initiated without cause. You were not permitted to metal detect within 50' of any flowerbed, shrub or tree. We have had this rule reduced to 25' and we are still working on abolishing it all together.

In 2011, the Task Force requested and received four additional parks that will be added to the 2012 NYC Parks metal detecting permit.

In 2010, Task Force efforts resulted in three additional parks being added to the 2010 metal detecting permit.

In 2008, Prospect Park and Owls Head Park were closed to metal detecting. Owls Head Park remains closed, but Prospect Park once again allows metal detecting thanks to a successful call campaign organized by the Task Force.

In 1997, all NYC beaches were reopened to metal detecting and some NYC public parks were reopened, under a permit system established between NYC Parks and the Task Force.


Thats it.



Here is the list of "People actively involved in the Task Force" provided on their website:

Avery Marder, NYC—One of the original TF members dating back to 1996. Has been involved with NYC Parks fighting for our right to metal detect for over 15 years. Avery has enjoyed the hobby for 24 years.

Harold Lownfels, Upstate NJ—Along with Avery, he is also one of the original members of the Task Force and has been involved with NYC Parks fighting for our right to metal detect for over 15 years. He was instrumental in setting up the NYC metal detecting permit system currently in place. Harold has been metal detecting since 1975.

Carter Pennington, Upstate NY—Joined the Task Force in 2008 and has been actively involved with protecting our right to metal detect since that time. Carter has been enjoying the hobby since 1973.

Board of Advisors:

John Marchese, Staten Island, NY—Former President of the Staten Island History Hunters, John has a real passion for the hobby. He was instrumental in helping the Task Force achieve success in opening NYC Parks that were previously closed

That's it.

I am sure these are all nice guys. I am sure they have been great for detectorists in NYC.

BUT WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS ISSUE?....other than the fact that they claim to have spoken to a Tallahassee Bureaucrat whose has "
assured them" that SB 868 has nothing to do with metal detectorists? This part is important...the Government spokesman is NOT lying...why?...because the bill NEVER SPECIFICALLY MENTIONS METAL DETECTING OR METAL DETECTORISTS!!!...it mentions "archaeological specimens", it mentions "excavations", it mentions lots of other stuff, but it NEVER MENTIONS METAL DETECTING OR METAL DETECTORISTS!!!... So you see, you WILL be able to metal detect. The bill is not against metal detectorists...it just will not allow you to DIG "ARCHAEOLOGICAL" TARGETS or ATTEMPT TO REMOVE "ARCHAEOLOGICAL" TARGETS on ANY PUBLIC LAND IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA, INCLUDING TIDELANDS.

Please go to their website. See for yourself exactly what they claim to know. See for yourself exactly how they came to know it. They don't even claim to have read the bill for themselves. There is one good thing about their site, though: They have a link where you can read SB 868 for YOURSELF. It is not that difficult. You can do it.
Remember: the only things that change from the current statute are the parts that are underlined.

 

[seeker41]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

well, i hope this is true. i have a couple questions though........
1. are any of the people at "detectingrights.com" lawyers or experienced with legal writing ?
2. where can i find the current version of the bill which does not include "any lands" ?
3. did they just take them at there word ?

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

"The effects of SB 868 have been misunderstood. This bill simply extends current law to areas in which the State currently does not have jurisdiction."

Read that statement again, until it sinks in.

We have those areas in Wisconsin. Two years ago the DNR archie decided on his own that there would be NO detecting on state controlled properties. That, because of a legal principle called the "Public Trust Doctrine". He is the officer of that Public Trust, and so prohibits metal detecting on state controlled properties.

That includes ALL waters in the state; rivers, streams, lakes, and marshes.

As well as state parks, state natural areas, state recreation areas, state forests, and probably shorelines. Here's a link to that discussion:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=215494.0

Why won't that happen in Florida?

Archies are irritated that anyone but them can dig in the dirt, "their turf". It's that simple. They watch TV and see the shows and they see stuff we dig up (in Wisconsin it's copper points), and it violates the "Public Trust Doctrine". They are its cops. It's envy and jealousy and job protection (and the nagging question of why THEY'RE not finding much). Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.

 

[badman#5]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

the little guy in fl is the one messing it up .stay off arch. sites when posted .no resarch requried there.

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

folks it would kill "salvors" of old shipwrecks --"aka" treasure hunters -- under its state of florida "submerged lands" clause --that means from high water line out the the states 3 mile limit -- under no one shall remove ANY HISTORIC RESOURCE * ( uh thats anything over 50 years old *) --it in effect outlaws "treasure ship salvage" --only modern cargo vessels less trhan 50 years old would be legal to salvage in the state water 3 mile limit area.

folks its very bad news -- its puts all public land in the state of florida into the "archies grasp and legal control" --once they got legal control over the area -- then they and they alone will decide what the rules are , and by going --uh, we are making some "use of area" - rule changes (the rules will be the way we "archies" want them to be -since "we" are now making em) over the "public" areas which "we" are legally in control of -- surprize -- IF THIS BILL GOES ON THE BOOKS AS "LAW" -- mark my words -- its only a matter of time till its "game over" on all public land AND WATERS in florida.

its the "openimg" move in a "legal" chess game. -- i see it for what it really is because "I'M AWAKE"

its too much power in the hands of only a few with no "check to halt them from abusing their power" -- and the few have stated repeatedly "on the record " mind you --THAT THEY WOULD "LOVE" TO STOP ALL GATHERING OF ALL ARTIFACTS OF ALL TYPES BY NON PROFESSIONALS --ie anyone thats not them.

 

[Bum Luck]

Re: Well I hate to burst everyone's bubble on the FL thing, but ....

folks it would kill "salvors" of old shipwrecks --"aka" treasure hunters -- under its state of florida "submerged lands" clause --that means from high water line out the the states 3 mile limit -- under no one shall remove ANY HISTORIC RESOURCE * ( uh thats anything over 50 years old *) --it in effect outlaws "treasure ship salvage" --only modern cargo vessels less trhan 50 years old would be legal to salvage in the state water 3 mile limit area.

folks its very bad news -- its puts all public land in the state of florida into the "archies grasp and legal control" --once they got legal control over the area -- then they and they alone will decide what the rules are , and by going --uh, we are making some "use of area" - rule changes (the rules will be the way we "archies" want them to be -since "we" are now making em) over the "public" areas which "we" are legally in control of -- surprize -- IF THIS BILL GOES ON THE BOOKS AS "LAW" -- mark my words -- its only a matter of time till its "game over" on all public land AND WATERS in florida.

its the "openimg" move in a "legal" chess game. -- i see it for what it really is because "I'M AWAKE"

its too much power in the hands of only a few with no "check to halt them from abusing their power" -- and the few have stated repeatedly "on the record " mind you --THAT THEY WOULD "LOVE" TO STOP ALL GATHERING OF ALL ARTIFACTS OF ALL TYPES BY NON PROFESSIONALS --ie anyone thats not them.

Print this out and put it on the refrigerator.