Weird electrical lighting occurrence...?

[Limitool]

I'll keep this explanation as simple as possible. Any questions please just ask.

I have this electrical occurrence happening and I can't seem to get my head around that is happening. It's in my 1800 sq. ft. woodworking shop. I wired the entire shop with 12/2 and 10/2 wire. Passed my inspection and buttoned up the walls and ceiling. On the ceiling I wired in 3 separate electrical lines with 8 LED lights along with 2 ceiling fans each. Each LED light is exactly the same. Each line has an on/off switch by the main entry door. Each ceiling line is on a 20 amp breaker. So all 3 electrical lines were set up exactly the same. So I say...?

All 3 lines each work as designed when it's respective switch is thrown on and off. But 1 line has it's own "mind". When I shut down this one line everything turns off instantly. Then about 3 seconds later the first 2 LED bulbs in the line turn back on fully lite with the switch still on the off side. They stay on for about 4 minutes then turn off within a second of each other. When I discovered this I was dumbfounded. Then it gets even weirder...!

I turned that line back on and it worked. Then off again. And the first 2 LED lights again popped back on. So I went over to the breaker box and threw the breaker to that line and they stilled stayed on. I went to switch to see if the line was dead. It was...! I left switch ON and threw the breaker back on. All lights came on. So I turned the switch back off and the 2 lights again popped on. This time I went over and threw the main breaker. And the 2 LED lights again stayed on...!!!!! Only those 2 out of all of them....! Went and got tester. No power incoming with switch and/or breaker off. Full 110 when all back on.

I took 1 bulb out and swapped it with one further down the same line. Everything worked normally except for the remaining 1 bulb. So I swapped it out also. Then everything was normal... I then put the same 2 bulbs back 1st and 2nd again in the line and they come back on EVERY TIME their shut off by the switch or breakers. This has been going on now for years and today I left shop, shut down lights, forgot something, went back in and the 2 lights were ON...!!!!!

Last summer my HVAC service guy and good friend came out. He wanted to see this. I showed him. He couldn't believe it himself. He grabbed my step ladder and did the testing himself. We just sat on the workbench staring at them. He didn't have a clue. Any ideas anyone..?

 

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[robertk]

That's an odd one alright. It sounds like a capacitor someplace in the circuit holding power to those bulbs. If so, they would "run down" and shut off when the capacitor reached full discharge. It's odd that they would turn off first and then back on, though. A capacitor would generally just make them stay on until it drained. If it's just those 2 bulbs, maybe it's something *in* the bulb holding power. If it was me, I'd try swapping those two bulbs with the same two bulbs in one of the other light strings, and see if the problem moves with them. If it does, replace those two bulbs entirely. If not, I'd look at swapping fixtures next.

 

[Doubter in MD]

I took 1 bulb out and swapped it with one further down the same line. Everything worked normally except for the remaining 1 bulb. So I swapped it out also. Then everything was normal...

Why didn't you just leave the bulbs in the positions when everything was working normally?

 

[Limitool]

That's an odd one alright. It sounds like a capacitor someplace in the circuit holding power to those bulbs. If so, they would "run down" and shut off when the capacitor reached full discharge. It's odd that they would turn off first and then back on, though. A capacitor would generally just make them stay on until it drained. If it's just those 2 bulbs, maybe it's something *in* the bulb holding power. If it was me, I'd try swapping those two bulbs with the same two bulbs in one of the other light strings, and see if the problem moves with them. If it does, replace those two bulbs entirely. If not, I'd look at swapping fixtures next.

robertk: "If it's just those 2 bulbs, maybe it's something *in* the bulb holding power. If it was me, I'd try swapping those two bulbs with the same two bulbs in one of the other light strings, and see if the problem moves with them."

I did that sir and it stopped. Other bulbs put into the 2 fixtures act normal. If the bulbs were somehow "retaining power" they shouldn't care what fixture their in... right? But they ONLY do it when those 2 bulbs and in THOSE 2 fixtures.

robertK: " If not, I'd look at swapping fixtures next."

I could as that's easy. But I've never heard of a fixture holding juice. None on the tester. No other bulb lights up on off with those 2 fixtures. I wish you could actually see this occurrence. Only those 2 bulbs paired up on those 2 fixtures does this happen. It borders on the supernatural sir. I need to try and film this happening... stay tuned?

 

[Limitool]

Why didn't you just leave the bulbs in the positions when everything was working normally?

Well being a builder I WANT to understand why it happened in the first place and keeps reoccurring. I seek to understand as any builder or do-it-your selfer would want. Making it go away is easy. I just seek to understand why this is happening. It's hurting nothing but if you "know" how electrical items are suppose to act and they don't.... IT GETS YOUR ATTENTION.

 

[Oregon Viking]

Process of elimination? New breaker, new switch(es) and new light(s)
Then Brad.... you start fresh!

 

[Doubter in MD]

Well being a builder I WANT to understand why it happened in the first place and keeps reoccurring. I seek to understand as any builder or do-it-your selfer would want. Making it go away is easy. I just seek to understand why this is happening. It's hurting nothing but if you "know" how electrical items are suppose to act and they don't.... IT GETS YOUR ATTENTION.

Fair enough. Here's a video explaining why LED bulbs stay lit without power:



I only watched a little bit of it so it may not be your answer. Especially since moving the "fixed" the problem.

 

[Limitool]

Fair enough. Here's a video explaining why LED bulbs stay lit without power:



I only watched a little bit of it so it may not be your answer. Especially since moving the "fixed" the problem.

That really got my attention. Thanks for that info. But putting a same different bulb into one of the 2 fixtures does not get the same result for some reason. But put the original bulb back into fixture and it comes back on again for about 4 minutes. I'm gonna "play" some more tomorrow with them. But thank you for the video guy... Brad

 

[releventchair]

Hallway led night light has quite a coast time when power is out.
Or did , before we got a standby generator.
Seems it quit when unplugged. Somehow being plugged in helped it coast longer.

 

[villagenut]

Been an electrician for 38 years now and I have seen many issues with LED as they have flooded the market....especially cheaply produced lamps and plug n play sets. Your issues sound like a strange one but without seeing it and testing it myself, I can only suggest getting some Lutron gizmos called LUT MC devices....they may work on your issues.

 

[Limitool]

Thanks Villagenut... it really isn't a "problem". It's more of a why or how does this occur thingy. Change out the bulb it goes away. Put problem bulb in another fixture it goes away. Except I have 2 bulbs that do it in only on the first and second fixtures on that line only. It just defy's common electrical knowledge. In fact I feel stupid staring at it out in shop AND telling this story.

I'd like to think the 2 bulbs are somehow retaining power somehow. But if you move them on down the same line they act normal. Or when put in another line. Other bulbs put in same 2 fixtures don't do it. Just those 2 bulbs in those 2 fixtures...? Hard to believe even when seeing it.

 

[villagenut]

LED lamps can be tricky....sometimes they flicker, sometimes they flash on and off, and sometimes they won't turn off completely or a few in the line wont. Dimming them with improper dimmers, dimming non-dimmable LEDs, are usually the culprit.....but their low,low wattage is another factor. You can add one incandescent fixture/bulb to the string of lights and see if the extra load on the string rectifies the issue..and the LUT-mlc may fix it as well.