We May have found an ancient Meteorite at the Jupiter Shipwreck Site!

[capt dom]

We may have discovered an ancient meteorite yesterday!

We were excavating a deep hole at the shipwreck site yesterday
and the day before. We got down to the pie shaped big pieces of
rock that came out of the inlet and the wavy bedrock where the thousands of
years ago the surf pounded over time when the sea level was lower....

{I will post photos of this later if there is any interest}

Then the Aqua Pulse started to ring! At first I thought it was a ballast stone as it
almost has the color of granite but even under water it seemed heavier than granite!

I sent it up and kept working the hole. When I got up on deck - I took a closer
look and one side of the specimen seemed melted! It was somewhat smoother than the
other side! It also appears to have "regmaglypts" looks like (thumbprints) on it.

I tried the refrigerator magnet trick but that didn't work! Old meteorites in salt water
over time can have the iron content leach out or corrode away!?

It may be ore an enterprising returning captain placed in his bilge for valuable ballast.
Anyhow, it is a cool rock - one way or the other!
Here are some photos....

 

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[Philvis]

Very nice find capt! Now you just need to get it tested because if it is a meteorite, that could be worth a pretty penny. I've seen some of the smaller ones the size of golf balls go for thousands. Good luck and keep us updated!

 

[Reef Dawg]

AWESOME DOM!

See, not all Treasure is Gold!

 

[itmaiden]

Definitely looks like a meterorite. That should be worth a few thousand ! An unexpected pot of gold !

Great find !

itmaiden

We may have discovered an ancient meteorite yesterday!

Then the Aqua Pulse started to ring! At first I thought it was a ballast stone as it
almost has the color of granite but even under water it seemed heavier than granite!

I sent it up and kept working the hole. When I got up on deck - I took a closer
look and one side of the specimen seemed melted! It was somewhat smoother than the
other side! It also appears to have "regmaglypts" looks like (thumbprints) on it.

I tried the refrigerator magnet trick but that didn't work! Old meteorites in salt water
over time can have the iron content leach out or corrode away!?

It may be ore an enterprising returning captain placed in his bilge for valuable ballast.
Anyhow, it is a cool rock - one way or the other!
Here are some photos....

 

[capt dom]

Here are some more photos of a great day
at the Jupiter Wreck site on the "Tank".

 

[ArmyDiver]

That was one weird rock. Crazy how all those ones we were bringing up were making the detector go off. Hopefully that ends up being what you think it is! That would be awesome. Did you get a chance to smash up the other ones and see what was inside them?

 

[ArmyDiver]

Oh, also, how did her hand heal up after that vicious attack from the ultra dangerous octopus? Amazing how quickly she went from "awww look at the cute little octo--- OWWWW! WHY YOU LITTLE".

 

[Tuberale]

Need more close-ups. Regmaglypts are strong indications of meteorites, but there are othr features as well. Grinding a small surface of the stone will help give information as well. (Dremel tool, anyone?)

Non-magnetic is a definate bad sign. Iron-nickel and stony-iron meteorites, which make up the bulk of those currently known, are all magnetic. Immersion in salt water would not affect magnetic properties.

However, not all meteorites have quantities of iron in them. Then there are also space debris, which is not strictly speaking a meteorite. This material might not be magnetic, but could have a high metal content. In your area, it is certainly a possibility, though I would expect more material further from the Kennedy Space Center.

At least one mission which was aborted (blown-up intentionally) carried on-board a 1 meter bar containing iridium. Such a space artifact would have multiple values: from the iridium itself (very high, more valuable than platinum) as well as an object which had nearly made it into space.

 

[GopherDaGold]

Wow! You guys aren't messing around, are you? I will be glued to this thread for the duration of your adventure and will look forward to many more posts!

 

[ArmyDiver]

Tuberale,
The depth at which we found it along with the growth that it had on it would make me want to think that it was pre-space exploration era. It is certainly a dense rock and carries a pretty good weight to it. It does seem to have the look of being possibly "melted" or something to that effect on one side. It made the metal detector scream pretty good. I'm certainly interested to find out what it could be. Granted, my knowledge of meteorites is certainly limited. I'm just the silly sod who drug it up to the boat. At the very least, it'll make for a cool looking door stop!

 

[itmaiden]

Here are some good photos to compare it to.

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/id/regmaglypts.htm

itmaiden

 

[capt dom]

Here are some close up photos.

This specimen weighs in at 14 and 1/2 pounds.

It appears to have been under water a long time. Corrosive effects of being
in the sea can cause iron to convert to ferris oxide and be flushed away from
the hydraulic wave action of littoral currents and wave action.

Although it was found deep in the stratum its mass may have had it work its way there
swiftly. note the partial barnacle growth in the photos.
Also note the sea-like rock adhered to one side.

I think there was a fire on board the ship, so this also may be a melted mass
of something that ended up being submerged.

The ruler should give you all a sense of its size.

I am not a geologist but I do know this specimen is definitely not native to the area.
It will be great if it turns out to be from a meteor / earth impact.

 

[capt dom]

JUST IN!

As exciting as this specimen being a 14 and a half pound meteorite....
we just got an opinion from a practical and therefore knowledgeable gemologist / gold and silver mechanic.

And, his observations make sense. The shape of it is not consistent with a meteorite. There also appears on one side
to be some evidence of layering sedimentation. Water usually is the cause of this, he told me and sedimentation is not
usually present in meteorites.

He then went on to explain to me, along time ago they used fire and quenching - as a way to mine and extract precious
metals in times past, when there was not drills and rock crushers...... like from the stone age through in the 17th century,
when our shipwreck wrecked....

This would explain the intense melting on one side of the specimen.
It still made the Aqua Pulse ring like crazy as I showed Army Diver under water...
But, it is neither ferris or magnetic.... so, guys and girls.....

Its beginning to look like we found a 14 and 1/2 pound piece of some kind
of ore - someone was shipping back to the Spain's - if it was, in fact from our
vessel.

I can not wait to do an assay of this specimen
so as to determine what it is comprised of.

Here is a little more research I found on the topic:

Hard stone tools work well enough on fairly soft rock, but make very little impact on hard rock. Bronze Age miners used fire-setting to break up the rock face. Large fires were lit against the rock face until it was glowing hot. As the rock heated unevenly from the surface inward, it cracked to a considerable depth (about a foot for an overnight fire), making it easier to prise lumps out with comparatively simple tools. (Often the rock face was cooled with buckets of water, but this did not help the cracking process. It allowed the miners to get at the new rock face more quickly.) Fire-setting was described in poetic terms by Job, probably about 400 BC:

not meaning to beat this subject to death but here is some more research:

The ancient shafts are up to 20 m (70 feet) deep, and mark the points where the miners followed veins of copper ore downward from their surface discovery, to the level at which they met ground water. The rock was hard, and the miners used fire extensively to break up the rock. Pottery jugs found down the mines probably contained drinks for the miners, and an altar had been erected in one shaft.

My wife and I actually went to the Potosi mines in Bolivia - where many of our coins from the Jupiter
shipwreck came from. The well hung fellow below was called "Uncle Tio", god of the underworld.
He was about two kilometers into one of the many mines that riddle the mountain that was the world's
largest silver find of all time!

The photo shows me showing an E/O with coins still in it to silver miners actually in the mine!

 

[Tuberale]

Tuberale,
The depth at which we found it along with the growth that it had on it would make me want to think that it was pre-space exploration era. It is certainly a dense rock and carries a pretty good weight to it. It does seem to have the look of being possibly "melted" or something to that effect on one side. It made the metal detector scream pretty good. I'm certainly interested to find out what it could be. Granted, my knowledge of meteorites is certainly limited. I'm just the silly sod who drug it up to the boat. At the very least, it'll make for a cool looking door stop!

And until I see more data on the stone, I'm not going to say it _isn't_ a meteorite. But depth under water has little to do with age of a meteorite: many are known to travel in excess of Mach 1 until at least 10-15 miles above the Earth, and may impact at considerable speed. Much faster than a bullet. But even a bullet would spend most of its velocity within the first 8 feet of water depth. Still, oceans are interesting places. build-up of sand can happen overnight, and currents have much more impact on where a stone will be found than the depth of the water it fell in.

There is some good news in all this. While Mel Fisher was hunting the Atocha, he reportedly found several things he referred to as meteorites ... and left them where found. I don't think he had any idea of the value of meteorites. Indeed, most meteorite experts prefer to ignore the value of meteorites, as any printed prices tend to increase the value dramatically.

Two years ago in October, in New York City, there was a meteorite auction. A 29.5-pound chunk of the Willamette Meteorite was offered for sale, but pulled before the auction ended. When pulled, it had 2 different bids of $300,000 each, proving that for that meteorite at least, the current value is $10,000/lb. The Willamette Meteorite weighs 13.5 TONS, and currentlly is owned by the Associated Tribes of Grand Ronde in Oregon.

My point is simple: until it has been independently confirmed as a meteorite, it really has not value. But a finder of a potential meteorite must treat it as if it were confirmed. That means analysis of the stone by a professional geologist, at the very least.

Each "expert" will likely beg a piece of the stone from you. You should keep the above prices in mind when forming your answer.

 

[Tuberale]

JUST IN!

As exciting as this specimen being a 14 and a half pound meteorite....
we just got an opinion from a practical and therefore knowledgeable gemologist / gold and silver mechanic.

And, his observations make sense. The shape of it is not consistent with a meteorite. There also appears on one side
to be some evidence of layering sedimentation. Water usually is the cause of this, he told me and sedimentation is not
usually present in meteorites.

He then went on to explain to me, along time ago they used fire and quenching - as a way to mine and extract precious
metals in times past, when there was not drills and rock crushers...... like from the stone age through in the 17th century,
when our shipwreck wrecked....

This would explain the intense melting on one side of the specimen.
It still made the Aqua Pulse ring like crazy as I showed Army Diver under water...
But, it is neither ferris or magnetic.... so, guys and girls.....

Its beginning to look like we found a 14 and 1/2 pound piece of some kind
of ore - someone was shipping back to the Spain's - if it was, in fact from our
vessel.

I can not wait to do an assay of this specimen
so as to determine what it is comprised of.

Here is a little more research I found on the topic:

Hard stone tools work well enough on fairly soft rock, but make very little impact on hard rock. Bronze Age miners used fire-setting to break up the rock face. Large fires were lit against the rock face until it was glowing hot. As the rock heated unevenly from the surface inward, it cracked to a considerable depth (about a foot for an overnight fire), making it easier to prise lumps out with comparatively simple tools. (Often the rock face was cooled with buckets of water, but this did not help the cracking process. It allowed the miners to get at the new rock face more quickly.) Fire-setting was described in poetic terms by Job, probably about 400 BC:

not meaning to beat this subject to death but here is some more research:

The ancient shafts are up to 20 m (70 feet) deep, and mark the points where the miners followed veins of copper ore downward from their surface discovery, to the level at which they met ground water. The rock was hard, and the miners used fire extensively to break up the rock. Pottery jugs found down the mines probably contained drinks for the miners, and an altar had been erected in one shaft.

My wife and I actually went to the Potosi mines in Bolivia - where many of our coins from the Jupiter
shipwreck came from. The well hung fellow below was called "Uncle Tio", god of the underworld.
He was about two kilometers into one of the many mines that riddle the mountain that was the world's
largest silver find of all time!

The photo shows me showing an E/O with coins still in it to silver miners actually in the mine!

I would NOT take a meteorite to a gemologist for identification. The scientific testing is far more accute. Most of the testing requires a specialized lab. Unless a small surface needs to be abraded to test for Widmanstatten diagrams, the stone itself should not be damaged.

It is possible you have a piece of metallic slag from a ballast pile of a shipwreck. But that still begs the question: what is in the stone?

A simple test: lightly tap the stone with a hammer. If you hear a ringing sound, it may well be a meteorite. If a light hammer tap removes any material, SAVE IT and keep it attached to the stone. See my earlier post.

Most meteorites will have a fusion crust: a very thin coating of black or brownish material caused by the friction of air on the stone as it entered Earth's atmosphere. In science, this coating is called ablation.

While the photos you provided were better, they still aren't detailed enough to prove or disprove the stone is a meteorite.

 

[allen_idaho]

9 times out of 10, if it isn't magnetic, it isn't a meteorite.

 

[Tuberale]

9 times out of 10, if it isn't magnetic, it isn't a meteorite.

That may be because the people who are looking for meteorites use that factor as a reference. At least 30% of meteorites have no metallic content in them. Take the Washougal, WA meteorite, a confirmed Howardite, which would have weathered away within a year after falling, had not someone suspected it might have been a meteorite.

Yes, the vast majority of meteorites are magnetic. But the ratio isn't 90%.

 

[capt dom]

I really thank the experts from giving their opinions.

Being an explorer and not an archeologist I have an open mind
and will weigh in on all the assessments I receive.

I didn't say my friend is a gemologist - I called him a "mechanic".
That is what some of us call practical folks who work with gold and silver
and other semi to precious stones.... O.K.

He is not a scientist but let me pass on a jewel of wisdom he imparted on me:

He said: "Dom - the universe is a pretty big place!" A meteorite from the universe
can be made up of anything - even things scientist's done know about yet!"
"The apparent sedimentation on one side of the specimen makes it look terrestrial."

Anyhow - I haven't decided to pulverize it and smelt it down - and I certainly am not going to let
any other fool damage it either, until I take some closer photos and test some rubbings from different
sides.

The only geologist I know - likes the world to think he is a Spanish colonial coin specialist and he
doesn't particularly like me.

I hope it is a meteorite but am just as happy if it turns out to be related to our shipwreck.

 

[Panfilo]

Capt Dom:
I hate to comment on your specimen without seeing it, touching it and feeling it, a big mistake one should not do. I’m not a geologist but I am a mining engineer and have seen my share of all kinds of rocks since I took several of my mineralogy and petrology classes at the university, more years ago than I want to remember. I did have a friend bring me what he thought was a meteorite some months ago and it didn’t take me but a few minutes to see that it was hematite, an iron ore. The streak test is easy, it makes a red line and if its magnetite the streak is black. You have to understand that for a piece of rock to make it through the very high temperatures of entry into the atmosphere, it must have very a special composition, other minerals will simply disintegrate and never make it to earth. As somebody said it should be metallic as 99% of all meteorites (ordinary chondrites)are magnetic so if it isn’t, the chances are not in your favor. Now if your sample was magnetic, that would not necessarily mean it is a meteorite either, it would just be your first step to identification.

What I didn’t understand very well is if your metal detector started to ring, which would indicate a ferrous metal more likely than not though some fortunately detect silver and gold plus other non ferrous metals. So, here is what I’m thinking, discarding the idea it is a meteorite (they are normally very heavy for their size Dom and if you’re not sure its probably because its not plus they are usually very aerodynamic in shape) that there might be something inside your stone that made your detector go off. Please don’t break you beautiful stone until a geologist first takes a good look at it but since you found it where a shipwreck is known to exist, well all options have to be considered. Hope this helps some,
Panfilo

 

[capt dom]

My new cat sure likes it!