We all know the Ais found shipwreck treasure, how about other tribes ?

[Jolly Mon]

There are abundant references to the Ais Indians salvaging Spanish shipping losses during the colonial period. How about other tribes in other areas?

I found the following reference to be interesting. It is easy to imagine how a story like this might have no merit whatsoever, but it is very early, 1567, and written by the French ambassador , M. Fourquevauix, to King Charles IX.

from The Spanish Settlements within the present limits of the United States by Woodbuy Lowery

 

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[signumops]

The Surruque tribe probably salvaged Spanish wrecks, however, their domain adjoined the Ais, the Surruque living to the north of the Ais. There is some question as to whether the two groups were inter-related, however, the Surruque seemed to be more passive. Also, the Indians at Jacksonville had Spanish treasure, but, there is a question as to how they came about it. Possibly they traded with the Ais (?), or were in the trade stream as second or third parties. The Calusa on the west coast of Florida also salvaged wrecks, so you have four tribes known to salvage, or benefit from salvage; Ais, Calusa, Timucua, and Surruque. See Doug Armstrong's "French Castaways At Old Cape Canaveral", or Brewer/Horvath 's "In Search of Lost Frenchmen". Also, in "West Of The Bull", due out shortly, I discuss the remarks recorded by one of Hawkin's comrades during his stopover at Fort Caroline to visit the Huguenots, during which he learns of Indians trading Spanish gold to the Frenchmen there. This last account is first-person, recorded by an eye witness. I seem to recall another tribe living north of the Calusa on the west coast that made merry with Spanish wrecks on their shore, but the reference slips by me at the moment.

By the way, if you examine "The East Florida Expeditions of Clarence Moore", you find the locations of Indian Mounds containing gold and silver, some of which definitely came from shipwrecks (how else?). Many of these middens are associated with tribes not affiliated with the Ais directly.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Some of the books & finds from Clarence Moore are out of this world!!Most of the gold & pearls he kept for himself,but would turn over the pottery & other artifacts....Dont forget where the gold came from in the 1st place-it was the Indians.They worked like ants for hundreads of years for the gold & when they gave the spanish a few welcome trinkets -they went nuts on them!

 

[mad4wrecks]

The Tocobaga tribe from the Tampa Bay area died off within a 100 years or so after Narvaez visited them in 1528, but there is some evidence they salvaged wrecks along the west coast. The Calusa to the south were their enemy, so it isnt likely the gold & silver they had came from trading. http://pelotes.jea.com/Tocob.htm

Here is a very good article about the location of the main Ais town by my friend, archaeologist Alan Brech, and J.F. Lanham:

http://www.academia.edu/1084655/The...eneral_Location_of_the_Indians_of_Santa_Lucia

Tom

 

[RELICDUDE07]

This pic. says alot- If you look at some of the items-it looks like some of the gold Mel. found!!!

 

[Trembull]

View attachment 795909

Looks to me like the Spanish is more jealous of the Indians Banana Hammocks - Then interested in the items offered.

 

[Jolly Mon]

I have actually been going through many of the old archaeological reports on finds in Native American burial mounds. Fascinating stuff.

Anyway, in reference to the Ribaut colony/ Charlesfort above, it just seems a strange story for someone to concoct in 1567.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Some of the books & finds from Clarence Moore are out of this world!!Most of the gold & pearls he kept for himself,but would turn over the pottery & other artifacts....Dont forget where the gold came from in the 1st place-it was the Indians.They worked like ants for hundreads of years for the gold & when they gave the spanish a few welcome trinkets -they went nuts on them! View attachment 795519

Native American Genocide Still Haunts U.S.
You left something out !
Ossy

 

[Jolly Mon]

Native American Genocide Still Haunts U.S.
You left something out !
Ossy

Ironically, the only cultures on earth that may have been more barbaric than the Spanish Conquistadors in the 16th century were the Aztec and Inca themselves. Both the Aztec and Inca practiced what amounts to genocide on neighboring tribes who refused to submit to their rule. Both also practiced human sacrifice---including that of children. During one festival in 1487, the Aztecs murdered 80,400 people in four days time. Estimates are that Mesoamerican cultures sacrificed upwards of 250,000 people per year. And this only accounts for ritual sacrifice, not battlefield carnage.

A quick look into the history of North American and Caribbean natives reveals similar atrocities, albeit on a much smaller scale. Native American tribes were almost constantly at war with one another with the strong taking from the weak. Sound familiar?

The "noble savage" living in peaceful bliss in harmony with all creation until the arrival of the evil white man is a Hollywood myth. It could have been different...Moctezuma's army could have landed in Spain in 1492. Do you think the Aztecs would have come to sing Kumbaya and hold hands with their defeated adversaries?

 

[RELICDUDE07]

The part i like best about the indians in the pics...They were not aztec nor inca.They were blond with blue eyes....They were the Welsh-speaking tribe in Florida who fled north after the Spanish conquest or killed for the gold-haha.On the 1520s map-the spanish called them Medanos.Good news for me is i live at Rio de Flores ...

 

[Jolly Mon]

The part i like best about the indians in the pics...They were not aztec nor inca.They were blond with blue eyes....They were the Welsh-speaking View attachment 796566tribe in Florida who fled north after the Spanish conquest or killed for the gold-haha.On the 1520s map-the spanish called them Medanos.Good news for me is i live at Rio de Flores ...

 

[Jolly Mon]

written by Fourquevauix to Charles IX in Aug, 1567
MP-FLORIDA_LUISIANA,6 1576

According to the above letter, Pedro Menendez had 5 of the 6 conspirators killed. Menendez was definitely in Spain during the time--he had sailed from Santa Elena and returned to Spain in May, 1567.

He had founded the colony of Santa Elena in 1566. The Spanish built Santa Elena more or less directly on top of the ruins of the French Charlesfort where the soldiers/sailors mentioned above had mutinied and returned to France in 1563.

The Spanish began work on their fort and settlement on April 14th, 1566.
Less than 2 months later, on June 4th, 1566, 43 of the 80 or so Spanish Infantry stationed at the fort also mutinied, seized a supply ship and sailed to Cuba.

Did they find something, too ?