Washington Manis Site determined to be Pre-Clovis

[scepter1]

In case you missed this published in Science magazine:

http://qmackie.wordpress.com/2011/1...13800-year-old-archaeological-site/#more-3692

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/334/6054/351.abstract

"The tip of a projectile point made of mastodon bone is embedded in a rib of a single disarticulated mastodon at the Manis site in the state of Washington. Radiocarbon dating and DNA analysis show that the rib is associated with the other remains and dates to 13,800 years ago. Thus, osseous projectile points, common to the Beringian Upper Paleolithic and Clovis, were made and used during pre-Clovis times in North America. The Manis site, combined with evidence of mammoth hunting at sites in Wisconsin, provides evidence that people were hunting proboscideans at least two millennia before Clovis"

Rich.

 

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[IllinoisDug]

Re: Manis Site determined to be Pre-Clovis

Amazing. Maybe that's why earlier points than Clovis & Folsom were never identified or found - they were bone!

 

[lostcauses]

Re: Manis Site determined to be Pre-Clovis

Amazing. Maybe that's why earlier points than Clovis & Folsom were never identified or found - they were bone!

High probability of such. Material of the earlier groups may have been more perishable.

 

[tmodel]

Re: Manis Site determined to be Pre-Clovis

WOULD or could it be that some of the awl's found in the bottom or below of a cloves site are realy pre cloves spearpoints this artical makes me wander. Terry

 

[GatorBoy]

Makes sence to me.flaked Stone had to have been a technological advancement at some point.

 

[natchitoches]

thanks for the links
very good read

 

[wells]

From what i read the site consits of a mastadon skeleton, not a layer upon layer of cultural artifatual evidence. It is also stated it is 800 years before clovis, do we really know when clovis began. Also clovis people were also using bone/antler points. So from these facts , when they excavate a site that has a layer of bone projectiles below fluted points then i will accept it. So for me this has'nt been determined yet.

 

[GatorBoy]

You can however radiocarbon date the bone projectile and find when the animal it came from died.. and get a pretty good Idea of when It was made since most bone was worked while green. As well as test the bone of the mastodon.

 

[SOHIO]

The real question here... when there is debate about when and who and where people came to north america........ after we determine the specifics...... whats it really matter..... I mean man migrated from africa or who knows maybe man migrated from the african area of pangea and traveled by brontosaurus to the area of north america. Im not saying that we shouldnt study our past but in the end what does it really matter when we got to north america. I dont mean that to sound like I myself wouldn't like to know the answer id like to know but what do you think it would matter or solve or lead to...? I think a better question to ponder well it envolves aliens i guess i wont get into that...........

 

[1320]

From what i read the site consits of a mastadon skeleton, not a layer upon layer of cultural artifatual evidence. It is also stated it is 800 years before clovis, do we really know when clovis began. Also clovis people were also using bone/antler points. So from these facts , when they excavate a site that has a layer of bone projectiles below fluted points then i will accept it. So for me this has'nt been determined yet.

Yes we know when Clovis began and layer upon layer of evidence isn't necessary because of carbon dating. There are several sites in North America that exhibit lithic evidence well below the Clovis layer. So, regarding the links by the OP....we can reasonably assume two things....Clovis were here 800 years earlier than previously thought or some other group was here 800 years earlier. Either way, it's predicated upon how reliable you think carbon dating is as a process and also whether the process was/was not contaminated when the samples were collected. The smoking gun that most seek to prove an earlier people likely won't be found. The lithic technology from Neanderthal to Clovis didn't change that much. There is little doubt that Neanderthal people used bone projectiles as well but finding an example will prove most difficult.

 

[1320]

The real question here... when there is debate about when and who and where people came to north america........ after we determine the specifics...... whats it really matter..... I mean man migrated from africa or who knows maybe man migrated from the african area of pangea and traveled by brontosaurus to the area of north america. Im not saying that we shouldnt study our past but in the end what does it really matter when we got to north america. I dont mean that to sound like I myself wouldn't like to know the answer id like to know but what do you think it would matter or solve or lead to...? I think a better question to ponder well it envolves aliens i guess i wont get into that...........

One question that begs for an answer is why was North America an isolated land mass.....or was it. The populating of North American reaches far beyond the question of who/how was first. North America could solve the continental drift theory. If evidence of Neanderthal man is found in North America it would result in a complete rewriting of many books......lol. We could then theorize that man migrated from North America to Africa by way of TRex......