Victorio Peak possibly connected to Tesoro Del Alma?

[jackrook]

Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.

 

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[Springfield]

Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.

Caballo Lake did not exist until the 1930's. I don't believe any of the Navarez waybill vesions mentioned a lake.

 

[jackrook]

Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak
find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.

Caballo Lake did not exist until the 1930's. I don't believe any of the Navarez waybill vesions mentioned a lake.

Well lake positioning or existence is irrelevant. Caves, gold, Caballo, Apaches. Get the picture?

 

[Springfield]

Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak
find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.

Caballo Lake did not exist until the 1930's. I don't believe any of the Navarez waybill vesions mentioned a lake.

Well lake positioning or existence is irrelevant. Caves, gold, Caballo, Apaches. Get the picture?

You're the one who mentioned the lake. Yes, the mountains are east of it.

Yes, there are caves all over those mountains. Yes, the Apaches were in there too. Yes, a famous 'Caballo treasure waybill' attributed to Pedro Navarro surfaced many years ago. Yes, Noss quite possibly got his gold from somewhere in the Caballos. Is there a cache of gold in the Caballos? Probably was, maybe still is. One of the '7 Cities'? Certainly can't rule it out. Tesoro De Alma? They'd love for you to believe they have a gold cache on their claims - so have lots of others over the decades. The Caballos have been full of scammers and hopefuls since the '30's. You can find records of them all in the Sierra County courthouse recorder's office. None has recovered anything except investors' money.

Yeah, we get the picture - we and many, many others have gotten it for a long time. Any new ideas?

 

[jackrook]

no new ideas. just seems that Victorio Peak seems to be the most believable of all cons. i want so bad for Doc Noss to be telling the truth. do i think he did based on evidence and statements? yes. but could he also be pulling the wool over everyones eyes? yes. im just trying to see if theres any connections here and no new topics had been brought up on this subject for a while.

Seems that if Tesoro Del Amo really had gold, they would just dig it out.

 

[lostcauses]

Seems that if Tesoro Del Amo really had gold, they would just dig it out.

Spit beer on keyboard..

 

[jackrook]

Seems that if Tesoro Del Amo really had gold, they would just dig it out.

Spit beer on keyboard..

My brain made the correlation between Pedro Narveaz(spellig is probably wrong) and The Peak. Well, turns out they mention him in the first chapter of the book. Hmmmmmmm

Spit beer on my phone.....

 

[lostcauses]

The problem with all the stories is that the amount of gold supposedly in the place when found has a major logistics problem. Fuel, workers, food etc.
Yet strangely enough there is a story about the uprising that got the Spanish ran out of New Mexico that might fit better.

Simply put gold was a commodity shipped to Spain before the reconquest, and was not after. Before the uprising a mine was using Indian labor ( punishment for any infraction of the law of the time). As far as I know that mine has not been found or reopened. Who is to say.

Simply put I am not a believer in all them stories. Some things went on, but what. After that it seems any one that wanted to be some one had to get involved in some way or another. I still see this today with the BS I hear about the caballos.

Personally I believe Noss was a good con man. He was also a good craftsman and horse ( goods) trader. Damn sure a cheating fool, as he liked his women from all he supposedly had out in them hills. I see an hear a lot of stories an photos of what came out of them places Noss was supposedly in. Most are way out of the dates, or incorrect manufacturing methods, folks would like to believe they are. The more I see of what was suposedly found the less I belive. This is due to knowledge of how and when things were made. The average person of course does not know.

Even to this day I get folks trying to tell me some fake Mexican item is some Spanish item coming from them mountains. I have learned not to say anything and just go on about my business. maybe some day some one will show me some real stuff. Some of what them ranchers across the years out on the joranada have shown me real early Spanish stuff.
I have personally seen more early Spanish artifacts out on that dessert than in them mountains.
I for one am not at all impresed with what the Noss group said and showed supposedly that came out of that mountain, or mountains.

 

[treasminder2]

Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.

Navarez' waybill

" Ask at El Paso Del Norte' where the Sierra De Organos and Caballo are located.

It is 2 days by Horse Back ata a good pace

coming upon the Camino Re'al , you will see the mountains on your Left,, and,
a PLAIN, the end of which cannot be seen on your right where the Sun Sets.
( the Camino Re'al that Pedro speaks of is todays highway 54 from El Paso to Alamogordo,, NOT The Joranado Del Muerto far to the West )

On your left you will see 3 lomitas at a good distance( small hills ) and on first sight of these, turn left into the Mountains. ( These are the Tres hermanos out to the Northwest and cannot be seen until you are even with Soledad Canyon coming up SR54 from El Paso)

Entering the Canyon you will find a spring, not too far inside the canyon.
This canyon has two passes,,, One, Endura Tascoti ( Hard wood pass,, meaning the Oak tree grove
at the west end of Soledad Canyon before you pass over into Bar Canyon from coming in from the east end of Soledad.

The other pass ( seems i forget for the moment the name)
anyway it is the east end of Soledad canyon.

You camp there at the spring where the Cat-tails grow ( Tules)

Coming on more or less level ground ( means if you are coming in from the east end of Soledad,
it is a steep grade up out of the flat desert until you are just about to the Mouth of Dorcey Canyon)

You will find the Siennas on the right ( Siennas are the picto-glyphs at eye level of a 5'8" man that are painted on a Bluff which is the end of the ridge that makes the West Wall of Dorcey Canyon)

Ok, Pedro's
letter map, rediterrio or whatever the He11 anyone calls it is describing two separate Canyons in the Organ Mountains

One is Soledad and the other is Filmore. Johnson Canyon is in Letter #2 just before he talks of another range of Mountains)

This is letter #1, pages 1 through 3.

Letter #2, pages 1 and 2 are of a different Mountain Range.

In letter #1 Pedro speaks of a flow of water that makes a POND that is Kinda big

That Pond is Seasonal and also dependent on a good wet and snowy winter.
it is on the west side right out to the west of Baylor Canyon.

Early Spring after a wet winter and you'll see it with a small hill to the east of it with artifacts laying around on the surface or just below the surface.

IT IS NOT A LAKE

NOTE: HE11 NO! PEDRO'S STUFF IS NOT IN THE CABALLOS NOR VICTORIO PEAK.

 

[treasminder2]

the name of the two passes are:
1. Paso De Endura ( which is the east mouth into Soledad ,named because it is a hard climb up into it,,,STEEP)

#2. Paseo De Tascoti ( Tascoti is a Hardwood Tree, much like the Robles, or Scrub Oak Tree's)

The Isema Rock mentioned by Pedro is a LODE STONE. has Magnetic Properties and willl attract the point of a compass as he says in the letter,,, neat old school metal detector guys)

 

[jackrook]

any chance Tesoro Del Alma has any of ol Pedros loot?

 

[treasminder2]

not sure where you get the term Tesero Del Alma

As i Stated, Pedro hid loot, as he raided
However::::
he FOUND treasure that already had benn secreted in the Organ Mountains.

Nothing he can be connected to had anything to do with the Caballos as you call them today.

In his time, most all the Mountains to the North of Paso Del Norte are refered to as Caballo Mountains.

AGAIN: his goods are ,,, or were,,, in the ORGAN MOUNTAINS.

again,,, HE WAS NOT SPANISH, HE WAS "FRENCH' AS WAS LA RUE

AGAIN: HE WAS NOT A SOLDIER, He was an agent of a Family linage seeking treasure their anscestors had stored.

AGAIN: and as direct as i can get this across::: the "F'ing CHURCH and STATE were and are the
actual BANDITS.

and "NO" Pedro was not at Victorio Peak, he had enough located in the Organs.

 

[jackrook]

Forgive me cuz I'm a greenhorn but wouldn't a family wanna spend its treasure? Or keep it close to them?

 

[treasminder2]

Jack, say it is 1244
you just got here on a ship from france
you found a huge treasure and can only take so much of it back to france


what do you do about the treasure you have to leave behind?

do you document a way to find it again by your Progeny ?

If you have all you can use, more then you can spend before you die,,
and you left a huge amount that you could not get home to France

Get it Now?

Templars found the Route to Ophir ( where treasure is stored in the Southwest) when the Occupied Tyre
during the Crusades.

THAT'S THE FAMILY JACK.

THEY CAME, THEY TOOK WHAT THEY COULD CARRY BACK TO FRANCE

AND PASSED MAPS AND LETTERS DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS TO THEIR SON'S.

get it?

 

[Rawhide]

Very Good info all.

I live west of the Organs. I have been on both sides of the Organs where allowed, and found a great many sights to be seen. I will say that the trail(s) were used for hundreds of years, by many. All information about the French can be found no where. I suspect as a group was kicked from the area, they were not happy and made sure the victors did not get the spoils. I also am sure groups like the Indians made sure no one came back looking for what the heart desires. In my exploration I have met a few who look also. Again it seems that those of us who spend any amount of time in the desert become sick very fast. We develop gold fever. We see what we want to see. But we find nothing to show for it, most of us anyways. We also make up grand stories of why we are right and everyone else is wrong. I suspect there must be large amounts of mercury in the ground and we are suffering from temporary insanity.

As for the Caballos. I have been there also. There is mines there. As there is thousands of mines between Caballo and the Organs. All sorts of minerals have been pulled from the ground, and mining and quarry's go on today. What is left of the Spanish and Indians sites are falling fast to construction, to be lost forever. But one can still find signs that they were here.

As for gold and silver. After doing many different readings in many areas I have come to the conclusion that the Padre(s) ran the show. Also the gold and silver was most likely kept close to the mission. The mines were filled in quickly. That large caches of minerals could possibly be buried such as Tesoro Del Alma.

After spending a year on the ground looking under rocks and climbing broken trails that haven't been used in many years. I would say there is much to be seen and found. Those here who spend time in the mountains and desert know this already. But soon madness, paranoia, and distraction sets in and makes you crazy.

Between the laws of the land, and those who would do us harm over such a find, is it worth it? I cant answer for you, but I know my answer. Yes look for it, and if your lucky find it. But you can never really own it.

The description Pedro Naveraze gave can match a thousand places. After looking at some old maps of the area, I can tell you Victorio/Victoria peak is at least three different sets of peaks in the area. I also will tell you some of the old missions exist and overlook the old trails. I do believe there is sentinels in place and many secrets we dont know are being kept. All you have to do is get to close to wrong area one time.

I believe the French must have kept records. I also suspect there is Families across the border with information of the area, but cant locate the treasure. I have seen some freaky stuff and wish I was 20 years younger to investigate. Oh I do look, but from afar. Yes I am sure that there is at least one or more mines that have not been found.

Yes, they are both connected, probably in more ways than one. But in the end you have to see it for yourself and make your own mind up.

For the record, if you find it, you will go to jail. When you get out of jail it will be gone. I suspect anyone with some piece of history can loose it at the whim of the state. So why do the hard work, spend the money, just to give it to someone else. Its has been buried for hundreds of years and it can stay that way as far as I am concerned.

 

[Rawhide]

Jack, say it is 1244
you just got here on a ship from france
you found a huge treasure and can only take so much of it back to france


what do you do about the treasure you have to leave behind?

do you document a way to find it again by your Progeny ?

If you have all you can use, more then you can spend before you die,,
and you left a huge amount that you could not get home to France

Get it Now?

Templars found the Route to Ophir ( where treasure is stored in the Southwest) when the Occupied Tyre
during the Crusades.

THAT'S THE FAMILY JACK.

THEY CAME, THEY TOOK WHAT THEY COULD CARRY BACK TO FRANCE

AND PASSED MAPS AND LETTERS DOWN THROUGH THE YEARS TO THEIR SON'S.

get it?

To not get two different subject confused I replied separately to this thread. There is some very good points made in this thread, more so than any others I have yet to read.

I have found signs of Templar being here. Yet no record exist that we know of. There are other older signs also mixed in too. The Pueblo or Mesoamericans is a few examples. I am no expert and probably spelled that wrong. But the Chaco Meridian is a good example of some very advance Atsrology and possible navigation. But to what end I dont know. The Kensington Ruin Stone is another good example of many that someone, possibly Templars where here many hundred of years before the Spanish.

From here it only gets unbelievable so I will leave the campfire story's out of this.

So how do you know you have found something 100, 400, 1200 years old? Dating a find is most important. It helps with who and what and so on. So dating a find is very important to me. Anything that survives hundreds of years would be a find. I am a rock hound. Its legal and as long as your not digging or taking anything home no one cares. So I take pictures.

Every time I go out, I just am truly amazed at whats out there. Just got to look for it. Yes the sword and the shield was the tool of the day, and to find them you are on to something.

I would very much like to spend one hour with a member of that family. To better understand how certain things were done.

The construction of mines and vaults were great undertakings and no modern tools exist. Iron tools would have made excavations possible. I believe the french carried iron for trade purposes. It all keeps coming to a point and then stopping.

The idea a person could sail hundreds of miles, travel through the wilderness, and be able to find a exact spot is mind boggling. I have seen old maps. As sailors they must of had a way to mark exact spots with there sextants. Because there isnt any way to just walk back to a spot you have been. I know as it took me a week to locate my first find off a known trail. A chip off a rock, a iron smear, or formation of rocks in a certain way is just a few. Now a man on horseback changes the view point and yet there is even more ways to find a hidden trail. The first ones also had the sun and shadow at their disposal. To make sure they could still find it, in case one sign disappeared, there was also a redundancy of signs. meaning you wont find just one sign there will be many. There is close signs and far signs. Dark signs, and light signs....ect.

The french was not the only one to mark their territory here, but were probably the first. Somewhere down the line that information came to the king of Spain. The open pit mines of the natives were soon turned into what we know as modern mines. The Spanish, Mayans, and Aztecs all understood how and where certain minerals could be found. The Spanish introduced trade to the Continent. A trail system established.

A few hundred years ago the Spanish left, and soon Mexico lost a large part of their country of what we call California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. We had guys like Pancho Villa and his army even running the show here. The point is, yes there is some stuff out there to be found. But after a few hundred years of guys like you and me, where do we look?

Most of the loot is found buried in the basement of the church. Some is found in ancient caverns and caves. Some is found in a closet of a deceased relative. I try to look at areas of what it was 200 years ago.

The landscape has changed. the water tables have dropped. Large portions of the United States have been drained to make room for housing and such. But 200 years ago they needed water. They needed shelter from the wild animals, environment, and many groups of people. They needs food and used to grow crops. Gold and Silver would have been smelted and made ready for travel to Mexico City. But where to put large amounts of gold and silver?

I have included all this as I could see so guy trying to explain to his lord where his fortune is and how it is safeguarded? Too funny. Its under a rock or in a cave. Yea we only had 200 mules, what was I supposed to do? Im sure many trips were made to the mines. But it just is funny to me.

The question I think all serious Treasure Hunters ask, is why have they not come back for it? I wont risk being taken apart by this crowd on here, but I have already mentioned a few.

The fact is, there is a well know expedition by a three toed priest who left his mark everywhere. It just happens to cross many a treasure sites also. I used to laugh when I envisioned a band of wandering artist and craftsmen making hearts out of rocks in the wilderness. Then I realized, if it was big enough, and they had the time(400 years), maybe it really did happen. But no record of such gold was found. If it had been stolen it could not have went unreported or even moved without someone seeing it. They used mules and moved in the terms of hours not miles lol.

So frenchy or amigo if your reading this and ready to go get your gold let me know. I say the Organs was just the southern tip of a trail and one of many places a person could find or stash something. I think more than just The Victorio Peak and Tesoro Del Alma is of but a few, and possibly the lost Dutchman, and others all hold some things in common.

 

[Rawhide]

Any thoughts on a possible connection between VP and Tresoro Del Alma? Pedro Navarez allegedly confessed to a priest before his execution that he hid a 10 year span of stolen loot in caves EAST of the Caballo Lake in the Caballo mountains off the Jornada Del Muerta.

All of this sounds eerily similar to Doc Noss and his alleged Victorio Peak find. Possible a sacred Apache site? Possible one of the lost 7 cities?

Share your thoughts with us please, as I have already shared mind.

Navarez' waybill

" Ask at El Paso Del Norte' where the Sierra De Organos and Caballo are located.

It is 2 days by Horse Back ata a good pace

coming upon the Camino Re'al , you will see the mountains on your Left,, and,
a PLAIN, the end of which cannot be seen on your right where the Sun Sets.
( the Camino Re'al that Pedro speaks of is todays highway 54 from El Paso to Alamogordo,, NOT The Joranado Del Muerto far to the West )

On your left you will see 3 lomitas at a good distance( small hills ) and on first sight of these, turn left into the Mountains. ( These are the Tres hermanos out to the Northwest and cannot be seen until you are even with Soledad Canyon coming up SR54 from El Paso)

Entering the Canyon you will find a spring, not too far inside the canyon.
This canyon has two passes,,, One, Endura Tascoti ( Hard wood pass,, meaning the Oak tree grove
at the west end of Soledad Canyon before you pass over into Bar Canyon from coming in from the east end of Soledad.

The other pass ( seems i forget for the moment the name)
anyway it is the east end of Soledad canyon.

You camp there at the spring where the Cat-tails grow ( Tules)

Coming on more or less level ground ( means if you are coming in from the east end of Soledad,
it is a steep grade up out of the flat desert until you are just about to the Mouth of Dorcey Canyon)

You will find the Siennas on the right ( Siennas are the picto-glyphs at eye level of a 5'8" man that are painted on a Bluff which is the end of the ridge that makes the West Wall of Dorcey Canyon)

Ok, Pedro's
letter map, rediterrio or whatever the He11 anyone calls it is describing two separate Canyons in the Organ Mountains

One is Soledad and the other is Filmore. Johnson Canyon is in Letter #2 just before he talks of another range of Mountains)

This is letter #1, pages 1 through 3.

Letter #2, pages 1 and 2 are of a different Mountain Range.

In letter #1 Pedro speaks of a flow of water that makes a POND that is Kinda big

That Pond is Seasonal and also dependent on a good wet and snowy winter.
it is on the west side right out to the west of Baylor Canyon.

Early Spring after a wet winter and you'll see it with a small hill to the east of it with artifacts laying around on the surface or just below the surface.

IT IS NOT A LAKE

NOTE: HE11 NO! PEDRO'S STUFF IS NOT IN THE CABALLOS NOR VICTORIO PEAK.

You took a whole lot of info and crunched it. One of the first things I realized was Pedro was lost, confused, or actually telling the truth in a devious way. In plain sight comes to mind here.

I believe Pedro was protecting something even with certain death looking at him.

I think Doc Noss knew something too. Along with the gold bars at Victorio Peak was other things not Spanish in nature.

Its very likely Victorio Peak was discovered, and used a cache point by more than one person. Did Doc put it there, or someone else? Where was docs Real find if it was a con job?

Along those lines, why just one place to hide gold? The Organs is a big place and so is Caballo.

Ever see the add, lost Garmin somewhere between Baylors Pass and the East Trail Head. If you find it you can keep it? Now we are talking about a mine and smelting area, most likely terraformed into the side of a mountain, roughly 8 foot by 20 feet. There is a pond and three peaks. You can see the Valley below and have a several hour warning if anyone should approach. Your camp is made defendable by its location should it be found out or well known. You can see a pond that is not visible when your standing next to it. (please dont ask me to explain). Your camp has been placed out of view from the trail.

Now lets picture Pedro, tortured, beaten, starved, stripped naked, and tied to a post about to be burned alive. His education will dictate what he knows. How much would a slave be required to know to serve his purpose? I do not believe one minute the Indians or peoples who came here to live were treated even close to a equal. Yea, three peaks and a pond works for me.

Artifact: a handmade object, as a tool, or the remains of one, as a shard of pottery, characteristic of an earlier time or cultural stage, especially such an object found at an archaeological excavation.

How to hide your Spanish Mine:

Cibola is a totally different topic and definitely not Victorio Peak or Tesoro Del Alma. Not that the Organs may have at one time had caverns.

Cibola would be a site based on belief.
A large head

Another large head.

Not one mixed with Surveyor and Spanish symbolism.

"X" does not mark the spot.

But a heart just might.

Cibola may very well be a city under ground or a large cave. I think we look at it literally. But it most likely is just a place of worship, and full of gold and silver lol.

 

[jackrook]

Great info Casca. I often wonder why they didn't come back for more. There's no such thing as too much treasure. I understand mules and ship hulls being full. But why not come back again as soon as you unload the booty at home?

And why aren't there people looking for this? I'm not talking about armchair treasure hunters who speculate about things, but actual expiditions blog the lines of the Ova Noss Partnership but at other sites. If this, or any, treasure is as vast and important as some people make it out to be, then it's gotta be worth the hunt.

 

[Rawhide]

Great info Casca. I often wonder why they didn't come back for more. There's no such thing as too much treasure. I understand mules and ship hulls being full. But why not come back again as soon as you unload the booty at home?

And why aren't there people looking for this? I'm not talking about armchair treasure hunters who speculate about things, but actual expiditions blog the lines of the Ova Noss Partnership but at other sites. If this, or any, treasure is as vast and important as some people make it out to be, then it's gotta be worth the hunt.

My best guess is people are looking. But what Im finding is so well camoflaugued and positioned, its easier for the crooks to wait till you dig a hole so they can get at it. As for the mexicans, french, and church, you need a starting point and a 30 year education. Their way bills are worthless if they are looking at wrong mountain(hint, hint).

Also a lot of the trail is now either reservation land, or Park Land that doesnt allow you to dig or detect, and some places even forbidden to enter. But if you google those places you can see a operating mine or quarry going on. Im talking roads that go into a mountain and have pairs of white suv's every mile or so on them. If you get too close you may get a visit from a fixed wing air craft or a black hummer.

There also appears to be a lot of disinformation being put out. Best you keep notes and keep it to your self. Im not into grave robbing or playing in a 200 year old mine. So I enjoy the trail, and leave the rest for the bold.

I do feel the sites all are linked and have similarities. A good reason to not put too much out there. One last thought, the trails have been partially destroyed along with landmarks. It seems the last land mark is connected to the next. But what Im seeing is pretty simple stuff so far. But if you dont know to look for it, you would never guess anything was there.

Take a camera and leave the shovel at home. You and your family will enjoy the time together not lost looking at rocks.

 

[treasminder2]

Casca
the 7 cibolas are "EXACTLY 7 SITES, CALL THEM UNDERGROUND CAVERNS OR CAVES"

THEY ARE NOT CITIES

3 main peaks with caverns are these: cooks peak, victorio, granite

the other 4 are within sighting of the ranges these first 3 reside in.

Pedro, as i said was from Narrare FRANCE

Jackrook
Imagine the trip here and back to france at that time

would you, after making it here and back
attempt a second trip if you did not NEED to?

hey, get lucky once,,, don't push your luck
get it?