🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Utensil handle

[LostinGeorgia]

Found this silverware handle a few days ago Hoping someone on here can read these letters.

 

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[Red-Coat]

I could be wrong, but it looks like it might be "S WATERS".

If so, that would be Samuel Waters, working in Boston, Massachusetts between c.1793-1805. He was a silversmith who produced flatware. If it is silver, it will be coin silver (nominal .900 fine).

 

[LostinGeorgia]

I could be wrong, but it looks like it might be "S WATERS".

If so, that would be Samuel Waters, working in Boston, Massachusetts between c.1793-1805. He was a silversmith who produced flatware. If it is silver, it will be coin silver (nominal .900 fine).

Thanks for the reply and info. Will leave it unidentified for a little while to see if there are any more replies

 

[pepperj]

Found this silverware handle a few days ago Hoping someone on here can read these letters.

Is it possible to have a picture of the whole handle, or is that it?

 

[LostinGeorgia]

Added picture

 

[Red-Coat]

See if you can convince yourself it's a Samuel Waters mark.

The handle style is what is known as 'Dog Nose', which was at it's height of popularity in Britain throughout the 18th Century. American makers tended to be somewhat behind in picking up on fashions.

 

[invent4hir]

Hmm, the one you found kind of looks like it ends with "ATES".

Below it is one Samuel Waters mark from https://www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/98970.htm
Two more are tentatively attributed to him with just his initials. Not sure if there are any more.

 

[Red-Coat]

Hmm, the one you found kind of looks like it ends with "ATES".

Below it is one Samuel Waters mark from https://www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/98970.htm
Two more are tentatively attributed to him with just his initials. Not sure if there are any more.

Maybe. If it does end "ATES", the only other possibility I can think of is William P. Yates operating in Elmira, NY between c.1841-1893 (but in partnership as Yates & Kimball between 1842-1843).

I still fancy I can see a "W" before the "A" although, as shown above, Yates used a "Y" with a very short upright that could look like the right hand part of a "W". The Yates mark is however longer and I also think I can see an "S" at the beginning.

 

[Mr.Glum]

Added picture

Would it be wrong to clean it up a little?
Does a magnet stick to it?

 

[invent4hir]

There might be a "W" before the "A". After the "T" there only appears to me to be 2 letters versus 3 - possibly an "E" or "R" and an "S".

According to https://www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/surnames.htm, there were 3 names that ended w/ "ATES" including Bates, Gates, and Yates. Unfortunately, the website doesn't show the marks for these except William P. Yates.

I recommend looking closely at the mark with a magnifying glass and describe what you see. Try holding it at different angles to the light.

 

[LostinGeorgia]

Sorry for the lack of replies since I posted this. Will try to do some more with this this weekend. Thanks for the replies

 

[LostinGeorgia]

More pictures. It sure looks like ATRS for the last 4 letters. I can possibly see the R being an E but just looks like an R to me. As for the other letter I see nothing definitive. Will try to clean some more tomorrow but don’t hope for positive results.

 

[LostinGeorgia]

One more picture. Tried to clean a little more.

 

[invent4hir]

This is a tough one. In the first pic you posted on Friday at 6:39 PM I see an "R". Then on pic you posted today it could go either way. I looked for a maker ending w/ "ATRS" on the https://www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/surnames.htm website and see none. So it could be the list is incomplete or an overseas company. Depending on how much more time you want to spend, consider taking a rubbing and posting it here.

 

[LostinGeorgia]

This is a tough one. In the first pic you posted on Friday at 6:39 PM I see an "R". Then on pic you posted today it could go either way. I looked for a maker ending w/ "ATRS" on the https://www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/surnames.htm website and see none. So it could be the list is incomplete or an overseas company. Depending on how much more time you want to spend, consider taking a rubbing and posting it here.

I agree on the “R/E more than I did previously which opens up Yates. What is a rubbing?

This is a tough one. In the first pic you posted on Friday at 6:39 PM I see an "R". Then on pic you posted today it could go either way. I looked for a maker ending w/ "ATRS" on the https://www.americansilversmiths.org/makers/silversmiths/surnames.htm website and see none. So it could be the list is incomplete or an overseas company. Depending on how much more time you want to spend, consider taking a rubbing and posting it here.

I am about ready to give up on this but what is a rubbing?

 

[invent4hir]

Per pepperj, "Try a pencil rubbing over a piece of paper" on the thread https://www.treasurenet.com/threads...birmingham-u-k-1800-1843.698562/#post-7210687

 

[ToddsPoint]

It looks like … … RATHS to me.

 

[ncsuwolf]

It looks like … … RATHS to me.

I agree with “aths” but think I see a w in front

 

[Almy]

I think its a YATES with initials in front.

 

[Red-Coat]

I was assuming this to be an American spoon, but perhaps it isn't. This is believed to be a Mark used by John Yates of Birmingham, England:

The 'INo' is uncertain, but possibly an abbreviation for 'Jonathon' (with the 'J' represented by an 'I' as is usual for old marks. It looks for all the world like an 'R' before the 'S', but close examination shows it to be a damaged 'E':

Note however that the 'S' is in a separate cartouche. Yates frequently split the letters of his name in that manner.