Update: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

[Breezie]

Today something else strange followed me home. It's a very well made triangle, which is slightly larger than a quarter, and it is stuffed with some type of white powder. It doesn't look like plaster, but has the appearance of old gun powder. I think the triangle is made of brass, and it is heavy for its size. I thought it was lead at first because of the weight. The pointed end is extremely smooth and so well made you can't see a seam. I found it in an area that has produced everything from a 1600's Spectacle buckle to WWI bullets, and everything in between. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks, Breezie

 

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[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

It looks like a U.S. Rifle Tracer projectile. Perhaps the compound didn't ignite when it was fired....or it was extinguished when it hit something and was distorted. If it was me..... I would dig the compound out and see if it would still burn under controlled and safe conditions. I would be comfortable doing this.....you might not. I'm a curious sort.......but then there was that thing with the "cat".
Its not gunpowder and Its doesn't look like the aluminum compound used in incendiary projectiles.
One other possibility is that it could be a "Frangible" projectile. These were used by the Military for short range training and were designed to fragment with minimal penetration of the target. Like the tracers filled with a compound that burns.....these were filled with powdered lead and other dense alloys. Indoor Amusement Shooting Gallerys shot 22's that were made of a similar frangible compound.
But that'd my guess Breezie.

TiredIron
I'll test it for you if you'd like to know.

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

WOW! That was F-A-S-T! Thanks Spooky & TiredIron . . .you two certainly know your bullets! Not too far from this bullet, I found a .45 with the stamp mark U.S.C.CO. 17, which I am assuming is United States Cartridge Company, 1917. Is that correct?

TiredIron, if you PM your snail mail address, I'll mail it to you, and you can have it, unless Spooky wants to flip you for it. Is this a WWI bullet? As far as it being fired in water, there is not a pond, creek, or any body of water in miles of this place.

I forgot to ask, is there any danger in these bullets?
Breezie

 

[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

Unexploded ammunition and ordnance always has the potential to do bad things.
The 45ACP Cartridge was live but has rotted through. The 45ACP and the weapons that shoot it have been in constant service from 1911 through today. I'll send you my address and you can pad them in something....and I'll perform a little forensic testing and email you the results and possible age.
Yes its fun getting down to the nitty gritty on finds with all the talented and knowledgeable people we have here.

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

As we know, truth is often stranger than fiction. In less than 2 feet from the bullets was this WWI lead soldier. I'm thinking, did someone come back from the war and bring the children of the family 'things' to play with including the bullets?

TI, thank you for the forensic testing; I'll pad them and mail them off on Monday.

 

[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

Unexploded ammunition and ordnance always has the potential to do bad things.
The 45ACP Cartridge was live but has rotted through. I'll send you my address and you can pad them in something....and I'll perform a little forensic testing and email you the results and possible age.

is it just ME, or does that .45 look to be "tracer-ish' as well......?
Or could this be a result of a soil condition.....

I thought that myself....and then also thought maybe the soil conditions have turned the lead to lead oxide at a much higher rate than normal. We'll see and I'll also let you know what it is....or was. They did have 45ACP Tracer but it was short lived and pretty rare. Today we make it in three colors... and a round that changes to all three colors for over 500 yards.

Keep diggin' Breezie....just dig lightly.

 

[wwace]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

Any ammunition that has an intact primer such as that 45 acp has the potential to be dangerous, do not mail any such shell please. Most primers on modern cartridges have a moisture seal that prevents the (Fulminate of mercury?)explosive from water damage. A primer by itself can cause injury so store any such shells safely. Any ammo you find please handle as if it is live, and dispose by reburying in a safe spot or call your local law enforcement if you are unsure. D

 

[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

Any ammunition that has an intact primer such as that 45 acp has the potential to be dangerous, do not mail any such shell please. Most primers on modern cartridges have a moisture seal that prevents the (Fulminate of mercury?)explosive from water damage. A primer by itself can cause injury so store any such shells safely. Any ammo you find please handle as if it is live, and dispose by reburying in a safe spot or call your local law enforcement if you are unsure. D

Noted.... She was instructed in a PM how to easily neutralize the primer
before shipping....only because the shell has rotted in half and can be squirted with WD40.

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

Any ammunition that has an intact primer such as that 45 acp has the potential to be dangerous, do not mail any such shell please. Most primers on modern cartridges have a moisture seal that prevents the (Fulminate of mercury?)explosive from water damage. A primer by itself can cause injury so store any such shells safely. Any ammo you find please handle as if it is live, and dispose by reburying in a safe spot or call your local law enforcement if you are unsure. D

I don't think calling the bomb squad, and cordoning off the area in a Johnson containment suit over a bullet is necessary.

breezie, got any of this?

problem solved

Yeppers I have it so we can call off the bomb squad. Who can run a household withOUT WD-40, Duck tape, and a glue gun!

 

[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

OK Breezie......here's the plan.
You probably haven't turned your garden over for spring planting have you? We can probably put this extremely dangerous piece of "LIVE" ordnance to better use. Go map out how big you want your garden. Then...call your local Law Enforcement as suggested and tell them you were digging in your yard and found a "bomb" or a bullet or something.....hell your not sure, your upset, with the vapors and everything! When the Police, Fire Department, and EOD from the closest Base show up, point over to one corner of where you want the garden started and say....I think it was over there. After they dig up about a 10x10 area.....say lawdy....I think it was over there. You get the idea....just keep working em' down the patch. When you get em' to the end (and they haven't missed any ground)... point to where you actually buried this bullet.....and let em' find it. Hug all the Firemen, thank the cops, hand out cookies to all the Army guys..... and go sit in the shade and thumb through your new seed catalog and enjoy a lemonade.

Better safe....than sorry right?

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

OK Breezie......here's the plan.
You probably haven't turned your garden over for spring planting have you? We can probably put this extremely dangerous piece of "LIVE" ordnance to better use. Go map out how big you want your garden. Then...call your local Law Enforcement as suggested and tell them you were digging in your yard and found a "bomb" or a bullet or something.....hell your not sure, your upset, with the vapors and everything! When the Police, Fire Department, and EOD from the closest Base show up, point over to one corner of where you want the garden started and say....I think it was over there. After they dig up about a 10x10 area.....say lawdy....I think it was over there. You get the idea....just keep working em' down the patch. When you get em' to the end (and they haven't missed any ground)... point to where you actually buried this bullet.....and let em' find it. Hug all the Firemen, thank the cops, hand out cookies to all the Army guys..... and go sit in the shade and thumb through your new seed catalog and enjoy a lemonade.

Better safe....than sorry right?

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! I am hysterical! And YOU have caused me to spit (sorry, that wasn't lady like, 'spray') some good scotch on my computer monitor!

 

[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

Its not common knowledge around here to most......but Spooky and I used to work together on some of these sensitive projects. Then one day I found out he was a "sonofabitch" ........what is a sonofabitch...?
Well...click here.
http://www.summum.us/potpourri/humor/sob.shtml

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

OK Breezie......here's the plan.
You probably haven't turned your garden over for spring planting have you? We can probably put this extremely dangerous piece of "LIVE" ordnance to better use. Go map out how big you want your garden. Then...call your local Law Enforcement as suggested and tell them you were digging in your yard and found a "bomb" or a bullet or something.....hell your not sure, your upset, with the vapors and everything! When the Police, Fire Department, and EOD from the closest Base show up, point over to one corner of where you want the garden started and say....I think it was over there. After they dig up about a 10x10 area.....say lawdy....I think it was over there. You get the idea....just keep working em' down the patch. When you get em' to the end (and they haven't missed any ground)... point to where you actually buried this bullet.....and let em' find it. Hug all the Firemen, thank the cops, hand out cookies to all the Army guys..... and go sit in the shade and thumb through your new seed catalog and enjoy a lemonade.

Better safe....than sorry right?

http://www.fieldforensics.com/products-bomb-suits.htm

Lets go shoppin!!!!

Just when I refreshed another drink, I read Spooky's post, and 'sprayed' again! Hahahahahaaaaa I don't think I will need item #1 though. How do I look?

 

[TiredIron]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

OK Breezie......here's the plan.
You probably haven't turned your garden over for spring planting have you? We can probably put this extremely dangerous piece of "LIVE" ordnance to better use. Go map out how big you want your garden. Then...call your local Law Enforcement as suggested and tell them you were digging in your yard and found a "bomb" or a bullet or something.....hell your not sure, your upset, with the vapors and everything! When the Police, Fire Department, and EOD from the closest Base show up, point over to one corner of where you want the garden started and say....I think it was over there. After they dig up about a 10x10 area.....say lawdy....I think it was over there. You get the idea....just keep working em' down the patch. When you get em' to the end (and they haven't missed any ground)... point to where you actually buried this bullet.....and let em' find it. Hug all the Firemen, thank the cops, hand out cookies to all the Army guys..... and go sit in the shade and thumb through your new seed catalog and enjoy a lemonade.

Better safe....than sorry right?

http://www.fieldforensics.com/products-bomb-suits.htm

Lets go shoppin!!!!

Just when I refreshed another drink, I read Spooky's post, and 'sprayed' again! Hahahahahaaaaa I don't think I will need item #1 though. How do I look?

I was going to suggest we double up on the 1st item....mandatory for everyone. Dang....you look good in a suit. You Photoshop guru's make me jealous.

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

I would prefer a suit in mauve or Mediterranean blue, but slipped on this khaki one in a rush.

Major serious kudos to both of you on your EOD skills! Spooky did you REALLY make the 'boom' noise behind Tired Iron?

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

I would prefer a suit in mauve or Mediterranean blue, but slipped on this khaki one in a rush.

Major serious kudos to both of you on your EOD skills! Spooky did you REALLY make the 'boom' noise behind Tired Iron?

No.

But i DID rub "icy hot" on the inside of his suit.

Ahhh, would you have placed the 'icy hot' in the area of item #1? You bad boy; where is my riding crop.

 

[Breezie]

Re: Strange white powder caked into a triangle(Gun powder?)

I mailed these bullets to Tired Iron, and here is his findings:

a. The triangular smashed bullet was indeed a U.S. .30 cal
projectile that was manufactured as a tracer. The
remaining white substance is tracer compound. So when
fired, it was streaming through the air producing a red
signature until it hit something hard and the burning
compound extinguished, leaving what you found. I
would estimate the age to be about 1925-1945.

b. The 45 ACP cartridge broken in two was manufactured
by the United States Cartridge Company in 1917
probably for "The Great War". It was
a live round when it was dropped. Corrosion took its toll
and it finally crumbled in two. I tested some of the
powder that was caked into it and it still burned, not
with the pressure and intensity as when it was new, but
it still burned never the less. The 230 grain full metal
jacket projectile was in very good shape and the white
powder on the bottom was just powdered lead oxide.
Take a few minutes and read the history of the
United States Cartridge Company who made your
found cartridge.
http://lowelllandtrust.org/greenwayclassroom/history/USCartridgeCompany.pdf

Thanks a bunch TI!!!! Breezie