Unmarked (real) silver cup- possibly very, very old - can you help?

[motherjunker]

Hi! I am new to the forum. I bought this little cup at a thrift store, thinking it was just a steel cup or maybe pottery with a metallic glaze (which is what I'm sure they thought too). It turns out it's very likely solid silver. It is heavy, rings very long and clear when tapped, melts an ice cube in seconds, passes the "makeup power" test, is non-magnetic and tested negative for lead. (Those are pretty much all I could do to test from home.) It weighs 5.1 ounces and appears to be in just a cast form - not polished. It looks almost like galvanized pipe because it's a little rough. I thought it was pewter and was disappointed when it tested negative for lead. It never occurred to me that it could be silver! I was truly perplexed when the magnet didn't stick.



Anyway, at first glance it doesn't appear to have markings, but looking at it closely and if different light it becomes clear that there are in fact very faint markings on the bottom, and possibly on the side and inside. It looks mainly to be hand scratched or hand embossed letters and/or symbols. They are very faint and I have to turn the cup at different angles to even see them. I can see some at one angle and then totally different ones at another. Part of the lip of the cup has scratches that I think might be from teeth.

I'm attaching some photos. It's very hard to photograph this because it's shiny. I made a second file in Photoshop to show some of the symbols I see.

Any info is greatly appreciated. I am at a loss and don't know where to go next. I asked a silver expert and she seems to be at a loss so far.

Thank you!

 

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[taz42o]

Probably cast aluminum. You dont show or tell the size but seeing your hand in the picture I think silver that size would be more than 5 Oz.

 

[motherjunker]

Sorry, I forgot to post the pics with the rulers. It's 3 1/2" by 2 1/8".
It's actually pretty heavy for a little cup. I'm pretty sure it's not aluminum, but I am no expert. Here you go....

 

[Red James Cash]

Way back when, silver was very expensive.Utensils made out of silver were ordinarily very thin.I have an old silver teaspoon that will bend just by looking at it.Your cup almost looks like a sand cast.I doubt anybody would sand cast silver.Who knows it could be made out of babbitt.

 

[motherjunker]

Hmmm. Interesting. I've never heard of babbitt. I'll Google it. Thanks.

 

[motherjunker]

Where can I go to have this tested to see what it is? A jeweler? Or should I purchase a silver testing kit? Sorry, I'm new to metals. I'm usually a pottery girl.

 

[motherjunker]

I'm looking at sand casted silver on Google Images. Yes, it does look similar to the texture of my cup. That helps. Thank you!

 

[Red James Cash]

Take it to a jeweler or maybe a coin shop,cant hurt..Youre welcome mother junker.

 

[motherjunker]

I made a video of the ice test I performed with my bowl vs. stainless steel. Whatever it is, it definitely is a good conductor!

 

[PYRATE]

It looks like the aluminum alloy that is used by Wilton Armetale.

You can test for silver by putting it in a sealed container with a hot crushed hard boiled egg and letting it sit for a day or two to see if it tarnishes. If you can keep it in a warm spot, it will tarnish more quickly, but only if it is silver.


My internal science dork feels inclined to mention that stainless steel is not a good heat conductor, so the test with the melting ice cube shows that your cup isn't stainless steel. (Though silver does conduct heat faster than aluminum, Aluminum conducts heat 10-20 times faster than stainless so the cup could contain aluminum, silver or another more conductive metal.)

 

[DCMatt]

Don't know the metal but I'm pretty confident that it is an industrial crucible. Do a search on molybdenum, rare earth, or tungsten crucible to see similar ones.

DCMatt

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Somebody else here at TN (whose name I can't recall) recommended using the Yellow Mustard Test for silver. He said to heat up a bit of French's yellow mustard and dab it onto a small area on the maybe-silver object. He said the yellow mustard contains sulfur, which will cause silver to tarnish. Probabaly would help to also heat up the object, which you can do harmlessly by just running some really hot water over it in the sink.

Pyrate's hot crushed boiled-egg test for silver works because the egg-yolk is rich in sulfur.

I should mention, like Pyrate's test, the heated yellow mustard test takes more than just a few minutes to cause the tarnish to appear.

 

[Jason in Enid]

It's most likely Aluminum. First, for the size and thickness, that would weigh close to a troy pound if silver. Second, there is zero oxidation on it. Silver bought in a second hand store (assuming they didnt know it was silver) would be mottled with browns, blacks, even golden hues. Silver oxidizes fairly rapidly.

As for TCG's suggestion above, yes the French's test works. Be very careful testing like this. I used a silver plated spoon (by mistake) to mix a potato salad and it turned the spoon brown in a matter of minutes.

 

[motherjunker]

Thanks guys! I am learning so much. I was only familiar with the light version of aluminum. You are probably right. I wonder why there are indented markings on it? Weird!

 

[motherjunker]

I didn't know what a crucible was. It's certainly a possibility. So, the marks could be mold marks. Hmmm.

 

[motherjunker]

Pyrate - You're probably also correct about the Wilton A. idea. I was looking at some of that this morning and thought it was very similar. My piece has a crude W on it, so perhaps it was an early piece or something.
Anyway, thanks! It's been fun trying to figure this out.

 

[cw0909]

i think DCMatt got it,could be a crucible liner
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[nhbenz]

I seem to see a lot of them (online) made of nickel, mostly made in china (which isn't to say that they're poorly made). Would this fit? I don't know anything about metal tests.

 

[taz42o]

I seem to see a lot of them (online) made of nickel, mostly made in china (which isn't to say that they're poorly made). Would this fit? I don't know anything about metal tests.

I will say it, Anything from china is garbage. Buy American.

 

[motherjunker]

Just a little update. After our conversation on here, I put the cup aside and forgot about it for a couple of weeks. Then I looked at it again, and my intuition is still telling me to look more into this.

Mainly, I dropped researching my cup because it wasn't very tarnished - only a little - and the whole Armetale/crucible thing had me doubting myself. I did a little research and although silver normally tarnishes quite a bit, the purer the silver the less it tarnishes. This cup is rather soft for metal, and it misshapen somewhat. It has what appear to be teeth marks on the rim. I almost feel like I could dent it with my fingernail. It's not quite that soft, but close. It would be much too soft for a crucible, and from the photos I am studying online, it looks like (ancient) fine silver. Also, my cup IS tarnished. I cleaned a small part of the inner rim and it was much brighter underneath. It's not as tarnished (brown) as some silver plated things I've seen, but it does have a tarnish.

Today, I saw some Armetale items at a thrift store, and they look much shinier and are a more of a blue gray color, whereas mine is a warm gray. They were much smoother and harder too.

I ordered a silver/gold acid test kit and plan to test it as soon as the kit arrives. I'll let you all know what the findings are. I am not getting my hopes up, but I have to find out for sure. I'm sure you understand.