Unknown old colonial button, need ID help

[cam9457]

Haven't been able to post pics for a while but I found this button around a month ago at a 17th century home. The pictures are terrible, sorry for that but my camera is 5+ years old now. I has what appear to be 3 maple leaves or pine trees on the front and in between those there are three what appear to be small flowers. I can read "EXTR" on the back but nothing else because I'm afraid of damaging it by cleaning it anymore. Any help on the ID would be great, thanks in advance

 

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[cam9457]

It does have a concave shape if that helps any?

 

[BuckleBoy]

Hello Cam,

I'd say you're probably looking at an 1830's civilian button there (give or take). It looks like it has a good bit of gold gilding left on it. I'd recommend using Aluminum Jelly on the button, with a paintbrush or small soft brush to apply it and gently swirl it around on the button. All of the crust will dissolve away, and you'll be left with gold gilding that'll blind you when the sunlight reflects off of it. Here's a link to my thread about cleaning buttons. Scroll down until you see "Gold Gilt Buttons." Aluminum Jelly can be purchased cheaply at Ace Hardware, and many other hardware stores.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,165857.msg1206963.html#msg1206963

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Don in SJ]

The convex buttons that have backmarks/quality marks inside a cartouche I believe are "Transitional period" buttons according to Tice, which would make the time frame late 1790's to 1815. If anyone can find written information saying/showing that they are later, I would love to know the source. I have the one unidentified, one piece, concave button with a crown and letters that says PLATED in a cartouche and GILT in a cartouche, and it has been said to be most likely late 1790's.

Buckleboy is correct in trying the Aluminum Jelly on that button, it should make it look much nicer.

Don

 

[CRUSADER]

The convex buttons that have backmarks/quality marks inside a cartouche I believe are "Transitional period" buttons according to Tice, which would make the time frame late 1790's to 1815. If anyone can find written information saying/showing that they are later, I would love to know the source. I have the one unidentified, one piece, concave button with a crown and letters that says PLATED in a cartouche and GILT in a cartouche, and it has been said to be most likely late 1790's.

Buckleboy is correct in trying the Aluminum Jelly on that button, it should make it look much nicer.

Don

I concur, either side of 1800

 

[Iron Patch]

Being convex and considering the back really resembles a lot of livery buttons my money is probably with the Buckleboy.

 

[CRUSADER]

Being convex and considering the back really resembles a lot of livery buttons my money is probably with the Buckleboy.

Just checked my button book, and similar examples are dated as 18th - early 19th century. So that could mean up to 1830 max.

 

[Don in SJ]

Being convex and considering the back really resembles a lot of livery buttons my money is probably with the Buckleboy.

It is the backmark being in a cartouche that dates it earlier, Ref: Warren Tice's book.

 

[Iron Patch]

Being convex and considering the back really resembles a lot of livery buttons my money is probably with the Buckleboy.

It is the backmark being in a cartouche that dates it earlier, Ref: Warren Tice's book.

I don't believe his is in a cartouche, it's just a raised circled backmark. By my eyes anyway.

 

[Don in SJ]

Well your eyes are younger and upon further review, I would agree it appears not to be in a cartouche, I think, clarity is lacking
Convex one piece buttons were in use in the time frame I mentioned, the cartouche would be a more definite dating indicator. The shank? I think it is also in the time frame but also used later.... fun fun. Went pingin this morning, 4 shotgun casings~!! Time for a my second summer break.

Don

 

[cam9457]

Thanks for the help everybody! I was looking at the back of the button again this morning for about an hour and I can also make out "& CO." The writting on the back is written so that it has to be read from the outside edge and I have to kinda rotate it as I read, I mean the letters are facing toward the outside of the button if that helps any? I will take a trip out to the store today and pick up some aluminum jelly and do the best I can with it. Whatever results I get from that I'll post. Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Iron Patch]

Well your eyes are younger and upon further review, I would agree it appears not to be in a cartouche, I think, clarity is lacking
Convex one piece buttons were in use in the time frame I mentioned, the cartouche would be a more definite dating indicator. The shank? I think it is also in the time frame but also used later.... fun fun. Went pingin this morning, 4 shotgun casings~!! Time for a my second summer break.

Don

Trust me my opinion isn't based on much then just taking a guess.

Think I'll be out in the next couple days for a hunt and considering how many empty fields I've tried I should hit a good one soon.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thanks for the help everybody!  I was looking at the back of the button again this morning for about an hour and I can also make out "& CO."  The writting on the back is written so that it has to be read from the outside edge and I have to kinda rotate it as I read,  I mean the letters are facing toward the outside of the button if that helps any?  I will take a trip out to the store today and pick up some aluminum jelly and do the best I can with it.  Whatever results I get from that I'll post.  Thanks again for all the help!

Cool!  I'd love to see it after the aluminum jelly.  If you see "& Co." on it, then you might not just get a quality mark, but a backmark--and we'll be able to date it a little more accurately.  It should clean up nicely.

Don, is that date range for any button with the cartouche, or just the concave buttons? Does it apply to the regular flats as well?

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Don in SJ]

From what I can understand in Tice's book, most are flatties with the cartouche's, my photo above, although a convex button, is a good example of one from the Transitional period.
I believe I might have some flatties with backmark's in a cartouche, I will look later and post here if I do.

Clarification? : A quality mark is a backmark, just like a manufacturer's name is a backmark, just like any icon is also called a backmark. Any "type" of backmark can be useful in dating the buttons. Tice makes no distinction between a quality mark and a manufacturer's mark, they are all called backmarks in his book.

Don

 

[BuckleBoy]

From what I can understand in Tice's book, most are flatties with the cartouche's, my photo above, although a convex button, is a good example of one from the Transitional period.
I believe I might have some flatties with backmark's in a cartouche, I will look later and post here if I do.

Clarification? : A quality mark is a backmark, just like a manufacturer's name is a backmark, just like any icon is also called a backmark. Any "type" of backmark can be useful in dating the buttons. Tice makes no distinction between a quality mark and a manufacturer's mark, they are all called backmarks in his book.

Don

Don, thanks for the clarification--I'll make some changes in the thread I posted the link to above, as needed.

The reason I ask is because I've found few regular flats with the cartouche, so I was thinking that perhaps these were older as well as the convex ones. It'll be interesting to see if we can figure this out--and I look forward to your input.

Regards,


Buckles

 

[cam9457]

I finally found a place around me that sells aluminum jelly and picked up a plastic jar of the stuff. I tried it out on two buttons I have including the one posted above. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but it didn't do much for the "maple leaf" button. The other button, which I know nothing about, did get a nice shine to the gold back side. I'm using a soft bristled paint brush and swirling it on and waiting a minute or two then rinsing it off. Am I doing it right?

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[cam9457]

Sorry about that

 

[cam9457]

This is the back of the other button which got a really nice shine from the jelly.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Nice work on cleaning


Can you see what the back of it says?