Unknown Coin / Seal

[m25]

Hello everyone,

Could anyone please shed some light on this for me? I've been led down a few roads but never had a definite answer.


(Its about 1 1/2 - 2 inches wide)

Left to me by my Great Grandfather who immigrated from Germany sometime between 1918-1925.

Was thinking it could be something like:
1.) a Seal of Germany / Berlin
- http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Seals_of_Berlin

2.) a Knights Templar Seal
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_Seal#The_symbol

Thanks for taking a look!

## EDIT - fixed my links, whoops ##

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

looks like Latin. "Sigillvm Libere Civitatis" according to this German link means "seal of the free city." HAMmENSIVM may be a city. http://translate.google.com/transla...e+civitatis%22&hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLR_enUS242US243

Can anyone read German? http://books.google.com/books?id=qy...X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA175,M1 (bottom of page 174)id=qygEAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA174&lpg=PA174&dq=HAMmENSIVM&source=bl&ots=68-piGp2x7&sig=i0pSmO2aeIZ60rgWahUxl21QMmE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA175,M1

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Sorry.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I finally think I'm getting somewhere.  This one was Complicated. 

I believe the medal refers to Adolf von der Mark, an obscure count who died in the 1300s. 


Lemme see what else I can turn up...



-Buckles

 

[BuckleBoy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_I,_Count_of_the_Mark

The coat of arms of Grafschaft Mark appear to be the same as the ones the knight bears on his shield on the token...


(bottom left hand quadrant of the sheild on the website below):

http://www.dr-bernhard-peter.de/Heraldik/Galerien/galerie107.htm

And on down...

"Grafschaft Mark: In Gold ein silbern-rot geschachter Balken."

The county of Mark: On gold (background), a silver and red checked bar.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I think I've got it's associations straight, at least...


"Hammensium" likely refers to the city of Hamm--which Adolf founded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamm


(I think this is the correct city.  If you read the "disambiguation note" on wikipedia, they list others...but in this case, the coat of arms is the same--and not only that, but Hamm is the only city left in the county of Mark where the original coat of arms is still used. )


I'm trying to find a seal of the city or anthing else that might look like the medallion.  As of yet, I'm at a loss as to what the medal might have been for. 


Thanks for steering in the German direction, folks!  

 

[BuckleBoy]

The Latin inscription...

On the side with the building:  "Seal of the Free City of Hamm"

And on the side with the count on horseback:  "Seal of Adolf, Count of Mark"



Hamm was founded in March of 1226. 


Could this have been a souvenir from a 700th anniversary of the town's founding?  It's almost consistent with your Grandfather's immigration dates.   



Regards,



Buckleboy

 

[detector de metales]

Where is Mike when you need em?
J2

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Its perfectly centered, perfectly round and seems to be machine made and not hammered. But I really dont know. I dont have any experience at all with medieval era coinage.

 

[Montana Jim]

Lottsa great research Will... but - where are we - I hit nothing but dead ends and you found some good relationships...

I think it's a modern (meaning NOT medieval) fantasy/replica... from what?  The best translations I found were Portuguese?

 

[BuckleBoy]

Where is Mike when you need em?
J2

Do we need him?   :P 

Its perfectly centered, perfectly round and seems to be machine made and not hammered.  But I really dont know. I dont have any experience at all with medieval era coinage.

Guys, this is Not a medieval coin.  It is a medallion.  Modern--or at least within the last 100 or so years.  The composition is brass, or something similar--not billion, silver, or copper.  And as Big Cy pointed out, it is not hammered.  The planchet was perfectly punched, and the medallion struck with a collar to keep its shape.


What I'd like to know is which area m25's great grandfather immigrated from



Regards,



Buckles

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Originally my first thought was one of those Renaissance Fair tokens but because your GGrandfather brought it over, I would say its not exactly modern. It must be at least as old as early 20th century. After reading Buckles research, my guess would be 700th anniversary of the founding of the city of Hamm.

 

[dneyedli@res1.mts.net]

I just looked through 4 very fat Krause World coin books -1600 to present with no luck. Even looked under Hamm. Well I can't tell you what it is, but I can tell you where it isn't. Sorry.
Dave.

 

[Iron Patch]

Looks very modern. I wouldn't waste much time chasing it down if it were mine. I'd concentrate on finding the big one!

 

[m25]

All I can say is WOW!! Thanks for all of the help everyone!! So much information!

What I'd like to know is which area m25's grandfather immigrated from

I'm told he came from Bremerhaven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremerhaven

Almost 3 hours north of Hamm (with todays travel) (Google Maps)
New Information: After picking my Mothers brain a bit, she verified that 1926 was the exact year he immigrated to the US

 

[BuckleBoy]

All I can say is WOW!!  Thanks for all of the help everyone!! So much information, so fast 

What I'd like to know is which area m25's grandfather immigrated from

I'm told he came from Bremerhaven http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremerhaven

Almost 3 hours north of Hamm (says Modern day Google Maps)
New Information: After picking my Mothers brain a bit, she verified that 1926 was the exact year he immigrated to the US 

Many immigrants poured through Bremerhaven in the early 1900s.  Sometimes a port city is listed as a person's place of origin when they arrive in the U.S.--rather than where they actually lived before they immigrated.  So it is possible that your Great Grandfather lived elsewhere, but Bremerhaven is still listed. 

Either way, the geography is close.  This has been a lot of fun to research. 


It's always neat to have more information on a Family Relic.   

 

[Matejko]

Hello everyone,
Could anyone please shed some light on this for me?

Maybe this will help.

http://www.hin.de/~templer/content/index2.php?page=mitgliedgeschichte&id=23

It for sure is not a seal - if it was a seal, writings should look like in mirror then.
It's probably a kind of token.

Pozdrawiam Matejko

 

[Mackaydon]

POZ,
Nice catch; that appears to be the exact image.
And from that site the following was taken:
The Templars Komthurey Mark is a registered Reenactment or Living History Association, which set a goal of the historical depiction of a military camp of the Knights Templar to the period around 1230 ad display. (Wir sind dabei keine Sekte oder militante Organisation sondern normale Menschen mit Interesse und Spaß am Mittelalter und dies wollen wir gerne teilen.) We are not a sect or militant organization but normal people with interest and pleasure in the Middle Ages and so we like to share. (So zeigen wir auf mittelalterlichen Märkten, Volksfesten und Museumsveranstaltungen dem oder der Interessierten wie eine Komthurey die kleinste "Niederlassung" bei den geistlichen Orden zur damaligen Zeit intern agierte und funktionierte.) So we show on medieval markets, festivals and events the museum or as an interested Komthurey (the smallest "establishment" in the spiritual orders) at the time acted and worked internally. (Unser Wirkungsradius kann grob als das östliche NRW bezeichnet werden, wobei wir natürlich nicht abgeneigt sind auch weiter zu fahren.) Our working radius is roughly the eastern North Rhine-Westphalia as a means, but of course we are not averse to go even further.
Don...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Maybe this will help.

http://www.hin.de/~templer/content/index2.php?page=mitgliedgeschichte&id=23

Pozdrawiam Matejko

Thats the image. Good work Matejko.

 

[BuckleBoy]

North Rhineland is still the right area. And that's an exact match for the image. This is getting interesting!


Knights and Medieval reenactment--and Count Adolf of Mark is a good one to put on such a token. I'd contact this Living History Association by e-mail and include photos of both sides of the medallion. They may be able to tell you some background or history on the medallion.

gilbert@templer-mark.de


Nice work, Matejko!


Best Wishes,


Buckles