Unique Horse Rosette

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I found this piece at a c1840 homestead site on Sunday and I can't figure out what the scene represents? I’ve found a lot of rosettes in my nine years of detecting, but this example has more detail then any I’ve ever seen before. Coming out of the ground, it looked smooth as a baby’s bottom, it was only after giving it a warm bubble bath that the details started to appear. After a couple of passes on a fine brass wire wheel, a liberal slathering of Museum Conservator’s Wax and a final polishing with a buffer wheel, you can see the results. It was originally silver-plated on brass.

Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks.

Dave

Update

I was able to get more neutral lighting to rephotograph the rosette and the details about what's going on are much clearer!

I can now see two Native Americans and a female figure (Liberty?) standing next to a buffalo in the grass.

 

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[creskol]

It looks like an Indian Chief in a long head dress, a man wearing a large sombrero, and a Lady-liberty look alike giving praise to a buffalo. That is a beautiful rosette.

 

[devldog]

That is indeed a unique piece. Congrat's to you on a very nice save. This really cleaned up nicely and it has a lot of fine detail.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

It looks like an Indian Chief in a long head dress, a man wearing a large sombrero, and a Lady-liberty look alike giving praise to a buffalo. That is a beautiful rosette.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts creskol.
I didn't see the 'buffalo' until you mentioned it... I'm still looking for "the man wearing a large sombrero".
Dave

That is indeed a unique piece. Congrat's to you on a very nice save. This really cleaned up nicely and it has a lot of fine detail.

Thanks for your post devldog.
I'm still shocked at the sheer amount of work that went into creating this piece, it's likely a 'one-of-a-kind'.
I would love to know what was carved into the opposite bridle rosette?

 

[creskol]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts creskol.
I didn't see the 'buffalo' until you mentioned it... I'm still looking for "the man wearing a large sombrero".
Dave



Here is what I see, but I imagine with a good magnifier, you could probably see way more detail than we can via photo enhancement.

 

[Hawks88]

Nice find Dave. I see the the chief with the long head dress and I also see the man sitting to the right also wearing a smaller head dress. I believe I see them both holding spears. I think this is a really old find that’s in real nice condition. Congrats.

 

[creskol]

I have poured through my books looking at literally hundreds of rosettes, but have not found a match to yours. With that being said, over 10,000 different rosettes were manufactured between 1850 and 1930.

Another thing to keep in mind while researching this, is that during that same period, brooch rosettes (aka: rosette pins) were very popular and the varieties were numerous.

I will keep looking.

 

[devldog]

Now yall' have me looking more closely at the detail on this piece. I too see the buffalo mentioned and the seated figure wearing a sombrero. Is that a flag of some sort just over the head of the standing figure? This is a cool looking piece.

 

[Reanm8er]

Very, very good Creskol! I hadn't seen the Buf either but now whole heartedly agree. I don't think
the gent on the right has a sombrero but he's the chief sitting on his throne. I believe the figure
top right is a hunter or medicine man wearing a buf robe. He has thrown his spear, that's why it's
so far away from him. I believe the central figure is the great spirit who has provided the buf and
is consecrating it for the use of the native people! Or something like that!

 

[Reanm8er]

And Dave, what I said before still goes! This was probably a commissioned piece.

 

[Retired Sarge]

Take some powder, or white crayon, or white grease pencil, or chalk to bring out the details. Makes for getting great shots of the etchings and makings on an item. We do this a lot on weapons to bring out the markings for photo purposes. Another course it to do a pencil rubbing. Which ever way, it's not permanent and non destructive.

Here's an example of the remnants of white crayon on the markings on a 1914 Koishikawa Arsenal Type 38 Arisaka rifle. You can see the arsenal marking is easily seen. It was all filled in but cleaning has removed most of it, although I wasn't attempting to remove it.

 

[Reanm8er]

Thanks Mike!

 

[Deftone]

I'm thinking part of a pocket watch. I have a few that I never got a true ID on the design. Just dug one piece and no other evidence was found.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Thank you so much to everyone for sharing their thoughts and theories in regard to this rosette.
You guys are all amazing, this is why I cam back to the Tnet forums after being away for 4 years!

Here is a post that creskol just made on my post in the 'Today's Finds' forum... I think it's very interesting.

Thanks again,
Dave

Actually, with these nice new photos, I see 3 Native Americans plus the figure in the foreground. .. the thing I thought was a sombrero is actually the buffalo's hind quarters, and his tail is very pronounced .. Tatonka..It was a good hunt!

Notice, too, that the Chief in the background and the lady in the front are wearing the same "chain-look" sash. My interpretation of it now is the Chief, and the Chieftainess (his wife) and their two son's are in celebration of the "first kill."

 

[creskol]

Thank you so much to everyone for sharing their thoughts and theories in regard to this rosette.
You guys are all amazing, this is why I cam back to the Tnet forums after being away for 4 years!


Thanks again,
Dave

I, for one, am glad you decided to come back from a four year hiatus .. It just wouldn't be the same without you, Dave.

 

[VintageHeart]

This is beautiful! From what I see, the Native American holding the spear is riding a horse. The sombrero is the back side of his horse, the tail is flowing. It's gorgeous. I found a brooch rosette last year at a 1800's site. Congratulations on your find!

 

[Reanm8er]

Well said Creskol!

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I, for one, am glad you decided to come back from a four year hiatus .. It just wouldn't be the same without you, Dave.

Thanks very much creskol, it's fun to be active again on one of the best detecting websites in the world!

I left Tnet to become a Moderator on the Canadian Metal Detecting website for five years.
But all good things must come to an end eventually, including my favourite detecting site where I found this piece.

Thanks again for your generosity regarding the Riker box creskol.
Dave

This is beautiful! From what I see, the Native American holding the spear is riding a horse. The sombrero is the back side of his horse, the tail is flowing. It's gorgeous. I found a brooch rosette last year at a 1800's site. Congratulations on your find!

Thanks very much for your post VH.
I'd love to see a pic of the brooch you found on the 1800s site, we may be able to tell you something about it that you don't already know.

I actually lived in Halifax and Tantallon for a year back in 1983. I worked for the Maritime Museum of the Atlantic and boarded on an old Canadian Navy Ice Breaker that was moored behind the museum.

Best of luck to you,
Dave

Well said Creskol!

Thanks very much Phil.