Two tin chests from about 1600

[woody50]

I have a number of nice finds, but two that I really like are these two tin chests. I found them about 2 meters deep in the mud and black organic ground where a underground parking place was being built in one of the small towns near where I live, a number of years ago.

They were NOT in the condition you see in the photo, they were flatten out to about 1/2 inch, just smashed together because of the weight at that depth. It took me and my restorer about a month to get both of them back to (almost) their original shape, working with boiling water, wow! was that hot....

They have been determined to be about from the 1600-1650 period, although no other chest has turned up here for comparison, not even in museums.

Not large, they are 52mm x 30mm and about 55mm tall. Originally the inside of the chests were lined with what is here called Latoenkoper, in English that is brass-lamella. A few of the sheets on the side walls were still intact, but the most had gone. You can see a little if you look carefully at the 'before' photo. The copper is very thin, from about 0.02 to 0.1mm thick, so it was amazing that anything at all was left. These sheets were about 0.08mm thick.

The first photo shows one of the chests after the mud and gook was sprayed out, but before we restored it.
The second photo shows both of the chests in my display case.

What they were used for is still a mystery. In one of the chests we discovered a small pin. So a possible use could have been to hold pins, for say a dressmaker. An other idea is a child's toy. The one on the right has be valued at 4000 euros, the on the left at 3500 euros.

 

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[Evolution]

You guys did an incredible job on the restoration. I would never have the patience for that. They look great.

 

[kieser sousa/rip]

Very cool. Awesome job on the restoration,bet that was fun,kinda like a puzzle !

 

[Roger Mn.]

They look great.You did a good job on restoring them.
Maybe they were used for storing birds or animals on board
ships during a long sea voyage.

 

[allen1]

Nice find man good job.
==================================================
allen

freeastro

 

[woody50]

They look great.You did a good job on restoring them.
Maybe they were used for storing birds or animals on board
ships during a long sea voyage.

Thanks everyone, yes it was a big project, restoring them.

About storing birds or animals, no that could not be, they way too small and fragile for something
like that...! Nice try though!

 

[CRUSADER]

Only just saw this!

Great job on the restoration! They look very nice together. Hard to repeat a find like that one

 

[BuckleBoy]

To put this in perspective for our American Tnet members:



3,500€ = more than $4,700.00


4,000€ = more than $5,400.00






So *just* 10 Grand worth of tin there. 




Incredible finds--I don't think I could've done the restoration myself on those.  I think my hands would've been shaking.  Incredible recovery and incredible restoration.


Cheers,



Buckleboy

 

[woody50]

To put this in perspective for our American Tnet members:

3,500€ = more than $4,700.00
4,000€ = more than $5,400.00


So *just* 10 Grand worth of tin there.

Incredible finds--I don't think I could've done the restoration myself on those. I think my hands would've been shaking. Incredible recovery and incredible restoration.

Cheers,

Buckleboy

Yes thats a lot of bucks, but I don't sell anything anyway. But I sort of lucked out with my friend with who I did the restoration. He really did most all of the work, you see he has sort of dead fingers, they are mostly numb because of freezing weather when he was young. Because of that he could restore most everything with his fingers, most of the time it was too hot for me. It's done a tiny bit at a time, no rushing. Little bit, warm it up again, another bit and so forth. Boiling water is safe for tin/lead, not so with heat or hot air. He or we have done a few other 'soft' tin artifacts, very carefully and they all came out good. Maybe I will put some of them also on the TN. Thanks for your comments. And yes, I was lucky finding them, an once in a lifetime find (as are many!). And yes again, you can't have shaking hands with that work!

 

[CoinFinder52]

Great find, how did you find This cool!

 

[woody50]

Great find, how did you find This cool!

Great find, how did you find This cool!

I mentioned in my first message where they were found. This place also turned up three gold coins for me, one is in my profile. We looked much like mudlarks, it was quite muddy. At first I though they were just wire or stuff smashed up, put it in my bucket and did not think about it anymore. Of course they were completly covered in mud and gook. At home when cleaning up the stuff I noticed that the material was tin and had the features of old peligrim stuff. So after a long time carefully spraying out all the gunk could see that they were something interesting. It took forever to get it open and straight, heating in boiling water, bit by bit movement of one tiny part only using your fingers, heat again and repeat. After a while stop and continue the next day.... A pity that no one can say what exactly they are.... Here is an other photo, before...

 

[Old Dog]

Woody,
WOW !
I can't say much more than has been said.
Great find !
Fantastic job restoring them !
otherwise I am in awe.

What an exercise in patience.

Thom

 

[archaeon]

i have a few questions about your awesome chests.
1. are the wheel designs on the front ships wheels with rope going around them?
2. does it look like they were lined with anything? too keep small stuff from falling through the holes? are there any indications on the inside of them that a lining was attached?
3. could you post some close-up pics of the design work and the insides of them?

i have been racking my brain as to what they are, it drives me nuts!
great find and incredible restoration.

 

[woody50]

Only just saw this!

Great job on the restoration! They look very nice together. Hard to repeat a find like that one

The left hand one was in terrible shape, we got it into the best condition we could, enough is enough with restoration for sure.
I might one day try to get the one leg straighter however... This sort of find has to be unique for me I am sure. Coins you find all
the time although there are also of course once in a lifetime coin finds also, but objects are different. I am always surprised at how many
different things you find in the ground, and how many of them cannot be determined....

 

[woody50]

i have a few questions about your awesome chests.
1. are the wheel designs on the front ships wheels with rope going around them?
2. does it look like they were lined with anything? too keep small stuff from falling through the holes? are there any indications on the inside of them that a lining was attached?
3. could you post some close-up pics of the design work and the insides of them?

i have been racking my brain as to what they are, it drives me nuts!
great find and incredible restoration.

Hi Archaeon
Thanks for thinking about them, and what they could be, or were used for.
About items 1 and 3, I will try if I get the time today to do something for you.
I have not taken a photo of the inside yet.

But about item 1, yes I think it is a wheel design, and could also have rope running around it.
Will take a better photo of them. Its I think a normal design back then, I think I have seen
the design somewhere else. As to being a ship steering wheel, have to look...

Item 2 I think I answered in my original message:
Originally the inside of the chests were lined with what is here called Latoenkoper, in English that is brass-lamella. A few of the sheets on the side walls were still intact, but the most had gone. You can see a little if you look carefully at the 'before' photo. The copper is very thin, from about 0.02 to 0.1mm thick, so it was amazing that anything at all was left. These sheets were about 0.08mm thick.

The sheets on the front of both chests was still intact, the rest mostly deteriorated so much that they were not usuable. I have though about replacing the missing liners, but don't know if I want to do that. Too much restoration is not good.

 

[DCMatt]

These boxes may have been perfume burners. Do a little research and look at some of the pictures on-line.

Yours are amazing!

DCMatt

 

[archaeon]

that makes sense, since it looks like they were made for hanging..unless those are where handles used to be...it also explains them being tin, which is very light

 

[woody50]

These boxes may have been perfume burners. Do a little research and look at some of the pictures on-line.

Yours are amazing!

DCMatt

That's a good idea DCMatt, could be of course that. I know that back then, say 16th century, things did not smell like nowadays, if you know what I mean. Taking a bath once a week after working hard in the fields, and all the trash laying around.... bad... I remember someone telling me about why it was proper for a man to walk on the outside of the sidewalk in the past, and the woman on the inside. If true those people used to throw their evenings or nights waste (you know which ones) out of the windows into the dirt street, and you were much less to get a splash or two being on the inside....

Anyway I will keep that in mind and look around. Its difficult to find old things just by goggling Perfume Burner, there are so many sellers of new stuff out there....

 

[woody50]

i have a few questions about your awesome chests.
1. are the wheel designs on the front ships wheels with rope going around them?
2. does it look like they were lined with anything? too keep small stuff from falling through the holes? are there any indications on the inside of them that a lining was attached?
3. could you post some close-up pics of the design work and the insides of them?

i have been racking my brain as to what they are, it drives me nuts!
great find and incredible restoration.

Got home too late today to take some more photos, the sun was gone. I like to use natural light. Try tomorrow for you.
I did look and see that the chests are different, from different dies in any case.

 

[DCMatt]

These boxes may have been perfume burners. Do a little research and look at some of the pictures on-line.

Yours are amazing!

DCMatt

English or Dutch Circa 1675

DCMatt