Trouble at East Fork from the homeless/forest trashers today. Livid.

[GoldHunter24k]

So my girlfriend and I randomly decided to go up to Heaton Flats this morning because we had to make a few stops along the way.

We were digging about 500ft below the campground and for about an hour when I noticed a figure standing at the top of the hill staring down at us. I didn't think anything of it when I glanced up and saw he was gone but when I walked up to where my girl was digging I noticed a figure hunched behind a rock at the top of that cliff right before the campsites and what looked like binoculars. Now having years of experience dealing with these types of people, I knew he was up to no good. My girl had been digging which involved a lot of bending over and I noticed that the bugger was looking down at my girl with binoculars just barely visible.

Now I won't have any of that, so I marched up to where the guy was hiding and I noticed they have a huge camp with 4 tents hidden to the left of where the bathrooms are at heaton. They are hiding in those woods and when I walked up I saw trash and crap was everywhere. These guys clearly have been there for months. You can't see the campsite and you would never know it was there unless you walked those tiny trails that leads to the edge where the campsites are. So as I approached I was hesitant because I thought it was just one random guy up there but when I noticed 4 tents there I stayed at the edge of the camp and called out "Hey guy with the binoculars" He replied "yea" Then I told him to "come here" in a stern voice and he came into view but stayed at the other end of the campsite. I told him he was creeping my girl out and he said he was "looking for his friend" well bullshit. You don't stare with binoculars at one spot if you're "looking for your friend." I told him he was making us uncomfortable and he just said "well i don't f-ing care." Big mistake buddy. I am not an enemy you want to have and now you and all your friends are on my bad list.

So I walked back down to the dig the the a-hole stood up on a rock and proceeded to stare down at us with the binoculars making it very obvious. Then his friends came out of their shanty tents and one took his shirt off and they were just standing up there staring down at us. If my girl wasn't there, they would have had another thing coming but out of respect and safety of my girlfriend we decided to pack up. She didn't feel comfortable being there anymore and is now saying that she doesn't think she wants to go back.

I can't express how angry I am that I was run out of the mountains by these shitbags and retaliation is being planned.

So as a warning to watch out for that spot if you don't want to have your day ruined. We only got to dig for about an hour when we were pretty much forced to leave. I will never be scared off a mountain and these guys have made the worst kind of enemy.

This tent site is right before the Heaton Flat campsites on the left. There are small trails that lead to the edge. The tents are completely invisible from any other direction until you walk those trails to see it. Probably how they have eluded the forestry for so long. Why can't they actually do their jobs and get rid of these people and leave us law abiding citizens alone.

Anyway this whole experience has put a bad taste in my mouth about the East Fork and I don't think i'll go back without my Smith and Wesson .40c. Really sucks that we can't feel safe in such a peaceful place. What a shame.

 

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[NeoTokyo]

_ _ _ Fire makes for an intimidating eviction tool.

Blanks so you dont get into trouble.

In all seriousness, inform the Rangers to go in and clear them out, maybe offer to help clean up too to show that us miners care deeply for our land.

 

[GoldHunter24k]

Thanks for the heads up Neo. Should I just call a number off their website or is there a more immediate way to contact them?

 

[MadMarshall]

The truth is I dont think they are hiding from the forest service I bet you the forest service is hiding from their responsabilities!! As for showing up with your smith and wesson sounds extreme. I ve never had an incadent with any homeless river rat that I felt I should return armed. It probalay helps that I look like a bum. But I have met few Miners and farmers that scared the heck out of me.

 

[GoldHunter24k]

Yea I see where you're coming from Madminer. Those people are best left to themselves but I couldn't stand by while that was going on. The .40 is just an added security and it's not for me as much as it is for my girlfriend. She didn't feel safe and it's ruined the whole experience for her. I could care less if someone was looking at me with binoculars but my girl is different. Anyways these days you'll go to jail for shooting the attacker!

 

[highdesertranger]

i used to go to ef often, sometimes packing in. it just kept getting worse and worse. got to the point were i would have someone drop me off and pick me up later because i didn't want to leave my vehicle parked there overnight. then i just stop going. it's sickening. the fs pirorities just blow me away. highdesertranger

 

[NeoTokyo]

I would get in contact with your local office and talk to them a bit over the issue, the number on the website would be the best one to call as they can connect you to the people that you need to talk to.

Having protection in general when you go up is a good idea, peppers or lead it all works.

 

[Hard Prospector]

A buddy of mine was camped at Heaton Flats not to long ago and had some stuff "vanish" from his camp that night and suspected some homeless camped in the same area. As he was looking around for his tools, one of them walked on by and said in a very smug tone" Looking for something?" while cracking a smile. Tom needed to go down to the store for some groceries and the more he thought about what happened the more upset he became but then he suddenly had an idea that made him feel a bit better. The next morning he woke up and remembered the bag of groceries left outside the camper last night, stepped outside and sure enough the bag was gone. In the bag was a loaf of bread, bag of chips, can of roasted peanuts and two bottles of cheap wine( each 2/3 filled with piss).

 

[CT8620]

GH - We were there yesterday. After hiking back from Swan Rock we were passing that area and heard some shouting and saw a female jogger hiking down from the Heaton trail and heard them (or someone I couldn't see in the bushes) yelling something to her that I couldn't make out. I heard her yell to them "did you find any gold?". The response was "No, did you find any?" which was rather stupid since she was clearly a hiker/runner (although based on my conversation with her on the way back to the parking lot I'm not so sure there wasn't more to her visit, but that's another story...). She responds "No, but I have the tightest ass (butt) in town!" The response from the bush guy was ..."well, bring that tight ass (butt) on down over here!" Needless to say, she didn't.

The point being ... it made us look through the brush to where the shouting was coming from and we saw them and the tents for the first time. Like you said, very well concealed. 99% of the people I've interacted with up there have been great. All different types of people, for sure, but no issues whatsoever. But there is that 1%...

I've gone back and forth about carrying "backup" with me, but like you said, the shooter is the one who's going to have to prove his innocence and justification, which is going to be a tough sell especially this day in age. My best research says that carrying a weapon there is NOT legal (California Law passed recently by Governor Brown) despite others telling me it is (it's about 50/50 and it's NOT hunting season so even carrying a hunting permit won't help). But if you KNOW your assailant also has a firearm, you might have a case. You'll be alive, which is good, but you'll still face some stiff court battles for sure. I have also heard of FS/Sheriffs asking to look through prospectors' bags/gear during their "shakedowns". If they find the weapon, that could be a way to fuel their case against us and potentially be a really bad day for you. But ultimately, do what you feel is necessary, I'd say.

Sorry you had that experience and it ruined your trip. Hopefully they'll get run off soon or just relocate somewhere else.

CT

 

[midnightmoon]

I am kind to a lot of homeless people; and I am sure a lot of folks here are.
But this story has me thinking that I want to bake a pan of brownies. Laced with [can't write it out loud]. Put it into a grocery bag. Hang it on the side mirror of my Jeep ... out of reach of ... rats ... and other innocent 4-legged critters.
If I park up near that campsite. And the brownies get stolen. Oh well.

 

[GoldHunter24k]

Hard Prospector- That sounds like the type of people I encountered. This is the first time i've had a problem with them and I go to EF a lot. I knew it was only a matter of time before they got too confident. I won't sit by while they harass good people just wanting to enjoy the outdoors. Your friends story is pretty funny and i hope they took a giant swig of that wine. They probably still drank it if it still had a little bit of wine in it haha. They have no respect for anyone or anything and I will be taking action to get them out of there. I just haven't decided on the method yet

CT- Sounds like the same hooligans that I dealt with yesterday. Sounds like the girl was playing into it and I don't agree with the way she responded because she's only making it worse for other female joggers. But that could also have been a defense to not cause a scene and just to get out of there. Can't tell for sure. About the packing in, If you have a fishing license then you are allowed to OPEN carry on the mountain because you have game on you. NOT concealed. I'm sure there is a grey area and the forest rangers probably wouldn't be too happy but this is no excuse for exercising your rights. The firearm is there for protection against assailants, cougars and bears and the rangers being "unhappy" about it is no reason to put yourself in harms way. If I get stopped it would be unloaded in the trunk with ammo separate and that is perfectly legal so I have no problem telling them that I have one.

Midnightmoon- These aren't the typical homeless that just need a place to sleep and a roof of some kind over their head. These are people who were booted out of society mostly because of drugs. The EF parking lot is a known place for drug deals and those guys only do a bit of mining to pay for their drug habits. Those type of people will never change and can never be changed and will never have respect for anyone or anything. They are there to avoid authorities and there's no one there to tell them otherwise. Where are the rangers with the AR-15s that we've heard so much about.

The bottom line is, the forestry doesn't gain anything by busting these kinds of people because they have no money to pay the fines! That's why they leave them alone and fine the honest folk who just go there to enjoy a bit of prospecting because they can afford it and they know they will follow up in court. The homeless will just disappear into the narrows if anything goes wrong and if they are booted out they will just return the next day. I'm going to make it a point from now on to not be friendly to these people and if I see an opportunity to sabotage their camp, I will.

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

There may be ways to entice them to reconsider their base camp location using non-violent means. It's amazing how much of an advantage one could have with the proper reconnaissance to gather intel on them for a few days. Learn their habits, particularly at night. Find a way to "encourage" them to leave on their own. Perhaps they can't sleep for a few nights because of unusual noises near camp, maybe the recurring sounds of a mountain lion get a little closer to them every half hour... Who knows, even Bigfoot could be lurking near by. The human mind is capable of manifesting some pretty scary stuff, especially at night under the cover of darkness. If one were so inclined, one could certainly play to the most basic of human fears. Fear is a fantastic force multiplier, I guarantee, if they feel like they are being stalked by something that is looking at them as prey, they will not sleep. One night of that fear would likely drive them to move on. Multiple nights of loosing sleep, they would start to get careless, make mistakes, and even turn on themselves.
As far as carrying a more persuasive deterrent, I would make sure I was protected to the maximum extent to the law. By the way, Hornet and Wasp spray has effective ranges of 25-30 feet, and is effective against more than just insects...

 

[KevinInColorado]

Starting to sound like fun...keep it legal if only barely!

 

[Oakview2]

Feel free to buys them guys a drink on me.... PS, don't forget to p*ss in it first

Hard Prospector- That sounds like the type of people I encountered. This is the first time i've had a problem with them and I go to EF a lot. I knew it was only a matter of time before they got too confident. I won't sit by while they harass good people just wanting to enjoy the outdoors. Your friends story is pretty funny and i hope they took a giant swig of that wine. They probably still drank it if it still had a little bit of wine in it haha. They have no respect for anyone or anything and I will be taking action to get them out of there. I just haven't decided on the method yet

CT- Sounds like the same hooligans that I dealt with yesterday. Sounds like the girl was playing into it and I don't agree with the way she responded because she's only making it worse for other female joggers. But that could also have been a defense to not cause a scene and just to get out of there. Can't tell for sure. About the packing in, If you have a fishing license then you are allowed to OPEN carry on the mountain because you have game on you. NOT concealed. I'm sure there is a grey area and the forest rangers probably wouldn't be too happy but this is no excuse for exercising your rights. The firearm is there for protection against assailants, cougars and bears and the rangers being "unhappy" about it is no reason to put yourself in harms way. If I get stopped it would be unloaded in the trunk with ammo separate and that is perfectly legal so I have no problem telling them that I have one.

Midnightmoon- These aren't the typical homeless that just need a place to sleep and a roof of some kind over their head. These are people who were booted out of society mostly because of drugs. The EF parking lot is a known place for drug deals and those guys only do a bit of mining to pay for their drug habits. Those type of people will never change and can never be changed and will never have respect for anyone or anything. They are there to avoid authorities and there's no one there to tell them otherwise. Where are the rangers with the AR-15s that we've heard so much about.

The bottom line is, the forestry doesn't gain anything by busted these kinds of people because they have no money to pay the fines! That's why they leave them alone and fine the honest folk who just go there to enjoy a bit of prospecting because they can afford it and they know they will follow up in court. The homeless will just disappear into the narrows if anything goes wrong and if they are booted out they will just return the next day. I'm going to make it a point from now on to not be friendly to these people and if I see an opportunity to sabotage their camp, I will.

 

[calisdad]

There may be ways to entice them to reconsider their base camp location using non-violent means. It's amazing how much of an advantage one could have with the proper reconnaissance to gather intel on them for a few days. Learn their habits, particularly at night. Find a way to "encourage" them to leave on their own. Perhaps they can't sleep for a few nights because of unusual noises near camp, maybe the recurring sounds of a mountain lion get a little closer to them every half hour... Who knows, even Bigfoot could be lurking near by. The human mind is capable of manifesting some pretty scary stuff, especially at night under the cover of darkness. If one were so inclined, one could certainly play to the most basic of human fears. Fear is a fantastic force multiplier, I guarantee, if they feel like they are being stalked by something that is looking at them as prey, they will not sleep. One night of that fear would likely drive them to move on. Multiple nights of loosing sleep, they would start to get careless, make mistakes, and even turn on themselves.
As far as carrying a more persuasive deterrent, I would make sure I was protected to the maximum extent to the law. By the way, Hornet and Wasp spray has effective ranges of 25-30 feet, and is effective against more than just insects...

It's been pointed out here that using wasp spray for other than it's intended uses is a federal offence so make sure if you do to mention you thought they were White Anglo Saxon Protestant. ;-)

As NeoTokyo pointed out, call the rangers. My experience leads me to believe they don't want to be bothered so be persistent, take notes and climb the ladder as necessary.

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

It's been pointed out here that using wasp spray for other than it's intended uses is a federal offence so make sure if you do to mention you thought they were White Anglo Saxon Protestant. ;-)

As NeoTokyo pointed out, call the rangers. My experience leads me to believe they don't want to be bothered so be persistent, take notes and climb the ladder as necessary.

True about the wasp spray. But I believe (though it is intentionally ambiguously stated) that the gov't was referring to the recreational use oh inhalants as an intoxicant. The bottle could accidentally discharge as well, randomly landing several seemingly well placed contacts. Those individuals in the camp, judging by their description, may be the ones held accountable for illicit use, as they may have possession of the evidence in, on or around their person. Of course, that is unless they didn't run from the local wildlife first.

 

[MadMarshall]

As a gold prospector it seems to me that: Who Am I to decide, interfere with anyone camping and using the land as they see fit.. I get it they were rude and inapropriate so what Their bums or drunks so what!! As a prospector the land that I Have rights too are getting less and less. As for tricking people to get them to leave or coming armed to be intimidating. As for littering, trash, abuse of land I willing to bet thats these issues seem to be an issue with all people.. I say if you really had a problem with them it would have been handled then and there. But they commited no crime that ain't common on any street corner, and by no means illegal. The only thing that disgusts me here is the talk of retaliating and tricking people!! Only a fool would sneak around another mans campsite at night. YOUR ******* is most likely to get shot and good riddance to you!

 

[GoldHunter24k]

How was I supposed to handle the situation MadMarshall? I have enough balls to approach a camp of 4+ people but I'm not stupid. You probably would have just told your girl to deal with it because you are afraid. They get whatever they deserve for the pieces of trash that they are. They have been there for months and they **** in buckets and throw garbage over the side of the cliff. I don't care what you say, I will not stand for it. Harassment isn't legal as much as you would like to think it is. They are destroying the land and making the land unusable for everyone who treats it properly. And now the forestry is trying to come down on prospectors because of this trash? No prospector i've seen leaves trash and quite the contrary we fill up bags of trash on each outing. You don't seem to get the respect for others even though you call yourself a gold prospector. You weren't there so you have no authority to say what kind of action is required. Sneak around at night? No just a lesson that needs to be taught. Apparently not only to them. Good day.

 

[CT8620]

Just a side note GH24, the term "miner" is kind of a forbidden word 'round here. We're PROSPECTORS. If you are ever caught in a FS/Sheriff shakedown, DON'T EVER use the word miner or mining, it's the key to the whole issue at hand, particularly at the East Fork. Just FYI.... ~CT

 

[MadMarshall]

My battles are fought against rocks buts that's just me.