Treasure Signs and Architects, Tumacacori Mission

[stilldign]

Many treasure hunters don't realize it, but they're wasting their time.

 

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[BILL96]

Just a couple of questions from a relatively new guy. What is the society that you refer to? the society of Jesus?. As I understand it the early Spanish did not use "miles" as a measurement, what unit translates to 2.2 miles? And one last thing and I could be remembering this wrong but wasn't the original Jesuit tucumcari mission destroyed and rebuilt by the Franciscans?, were they mining.
Thanks,Bill

 

[Old Dog]

SD is correct guys,

The diamond is a classic symbol for an archaic League
which translates to approx 2.2 sae miles on land.

OD

 

[cptbil]

AHH!
Therein lies the problem
One league = what ?
Depending on what year!
As the League changed values over the yrs
CORRECT ?

 

[Old Dog]

A Stature League as a standard land measure translates to 2.18 miles
The Nautical League for ocean travel translates to 3.18- 3.27 miles, Variable.
These are the earlier measures.

It is always best to check both.

The earlier adoption of the league was modified at the Burges Provice convention,
These conventions changed many known measures to some of the standards we as THers use.
a DEDO was a finger's breadth, or .686 sae inches
a CODO was 24 DEDOs, or 16.46 sae inches
a VARA is 48 DEDOs, or 32.909 sae inches

Skipping a few

a LEGUA (league)
Is Exactly 5000 VARAs
10,000 CODOs

It all translates to 4180 meters, or 2.597 miles sae

Hope this helps guys,

Thom
OD

 

[cptbil]

A careful check of the history of the measurement, "League" will prove that The league
Changed in lenght depending on what King/century/year & over the yrs!
But!
That in this case, really doesn't matter, as as being close, is just as good as being there !
Don't get too hung up on exact distances!
As they are all approximate any way !

 

[Old Dog]

Best way to know is to find out when the mission was built.
was it ever remodeled? When?
etc...
If the new measurements apply use them.
otherwise...

OD

 

[cptbil]

That may be ok!
IF !!!
But!
In this case,
The mission was built and used over a 200 year period ! :P
Much better to just use the date of the map!
Which was, I believe, "1760" or so!

 

[Timberwolf]

The society that I refer to is an old and very secret society. It has been around for many hundreds of years. This society is behind The New World Order, the World Bank, so on and so forth. Their main goal is to control everything....the money, the oil, the people, etc. This control comes through the controlling of the four hidden dynasty's....the Religious Dynasty, the Financial Dynasty, the Educational Dynasty and the Political Dynasty.

I assume you are referring to the "Illuminati".

I personally believe the concept goes back before May 1st, 1776...but since this date, the group behind the New World Order has been the Illuminati.

Timberwolf

 

[Rebel - KGC]

HA! Not ALL Illuminati guys are BAD... I am one; 12th Degree - Rosicrucian Order NOT "connected" to A.W. (Adam); now, THAT was one BAD dude... LOL. HE, WHO KNOWS... DOES NOT SPEAK; HE, WHO DOES NOT KNOW... SPEAKS ABUNDANTLY...

 

[bomber]

great onfo digin,have you followed the the rest of the map after the 2.2 miles to the town?

 

[gollum]

I know this is an old thread, BUUUUUUUUUUT:


Anyone who is familiar with the Tumacacori Mission Treasure knows that the Jesuits hid their loot sometime before 1767. The mission you see pictures of was built in 1822, and by the Franciscans, NO LESS! SO.............how could the Franciscans, who were sent to take over all the Jesuit Missions know where the loot was hidden?

Sorry dign.

Best-Mike

 

[lastleg]

gollum:

Thanks, now that makes sense. Now answer this. Why do people
insist that the Jesuits left a fortune behind? Because of tunnel vision.
Some dude made the claim to sell a story to the mags. So it was in
print, ergo it must be true.

lastleg

 

[gollum]

gollum:

Thanks, now that makes sense. Now answer this. Why do people
insist that the Jesuits left a fortune behind? Because of tunnel vision.
Some dude made the claim to sell a story to the mags. So it was in
print, ergo it must be true.

lastleg

Sorry Last Leg,

There you are mistaken. If you do enough research, you will see that the Jesuits did indeed have untold wealth. Then mysteriously all that wealth disappeared between 1764 and 1767 (when they were rounded up by the Spanish and sent back to Europe). You don't have to take my word for it. Below is a link to my website, where you can read the words of the Jesuit Fathers themselves. Several of them published their memoirs after returning to Europe. I will quote my favorite one here:

Father Joseph Och SJ from his book "Missionary in Sonora: The Travel Reports of Joseph Och, S.J., 1755-1767". This is an excerpt that tells of his arrival in the New World in 1755, on his way from Veracruz to Mexico City:

Via pleasant roads we finally reached Ozumba, one of the beautiful estates belonging to the Puebla college, and two hours distant from the city. .... Then we were driven into the city of Puebla de los Angeles in several coaches amid the cheers of a great multitude, and lodged in the great, splendid College of the Holy Ghost, where we were entertained as guests for three days. … [Regarding the cathedral in Puebla.] The cathedral church possesses an exceedingly rich treasure in its gold and silver church appointments. In Spain and the Indies the prebendaries and other canons do not have their choir at the high altar. Rather, not far from the church entrance is a large, high partition in front of their seats, and from the choir to the high altar for their sole use runs an aisle enclosed on both sides by railings. These railings run through the entire cathedral church and are of the finest cast silver, each amounting to at least eight hundred weight. The colossally large, silver hanging lamp inspires awe in all visitors. It is more than eight feet across and is very thick and massively decorated. The chains with finger-thick silver links are so heavy that when a ladder is leaned against them they do not move. A man can quite comfortably walk around the edge of the lamp. The decoration is rather ponderous, yet its manufacture by a goldsmith [sic] is supposed to have cost two thousand pesos. I omit mention of the many thick, large silver candlesticks, monstrances, and ciboria of finest gold. Suchlike are found in proportion and abundance in all churches, even those in the smallest villages for the glorious Divine service..................

There are other quotes from other Jesuit Fathers from their memoirs on my website:

http://1oro1.com/jesuits/proofs.html

See lastleg, don't just believe what the Church says now, and don't just believe what you read in Treasure Mags. Do your own research. EVERYTHING you want to know is out there. You just have to know how and where to look for it.

Best-Mike

 

[lastleg]

Thank you Mike:

I appreciate you clarifying this murky subject. So Spain under religious
control of Rome adorned their missions, established by Jesuits, with the
fruits of their mines. The ore described was a copper/silver blend with
no mention of free-milling gold. At least at the mission site mentioned.

Do you know of metallurgy schooling of Jesuits in Europe? To turn
the raw ore into oppulent fixtures to awe the native workforce would
seem to imply the transporting of the hardware and quicksilver to this
remote area. The type of church adornments described would either
be brought there or cast on site.

Can you summarize the equipment it would take and the mining
experience it would require to mold such objects?

Regarding the enormous wealth of the Jesuits the silver and minor
gold objects that the priest spoke of hardly amounts to transportable
treasure unless beside the church ornaments the Jesuits cast a huge
inventory of silver bars and secreted them. It is hard to believe they
had no clue of the coming eviction.

Thanks again,
lastleg

 

[gollum]

Lastleg,

The Jesuits are the most knowledgeable of any order of the Catholic Church. You can bet they knew many years before what was coming down the pike.

The Jesuits INVENTED most of the Earth Sciences (geology, geography, etc), and were the most renowned cartographers and cryptographers of their day (I.E. Padre Eusebbio Francisco Kino SJ). If you read the entire book by Father Joseph Och SJ, you will see that he had an immense knowledge of all aspects of mining and refining precious metals. Turning gold and silver from raw ore to a finished product is not all that difficult for anyone with such knowledge.

When I say that the Jesuits had immense wealth, I don't mean to say that they had huge stores of gold and silver bars and coin. I believe there may have been some, but the bulk of their wealth was in finished pieces. Monstrances, Ciboria, Statues of Mary, Crucifixes, Candlesticks, Railings, Chandeliers, etc. All those ponderous decorations adorned their Churches in 1755 when Joseph Och SJ got there, but was mysteriously gone when the Spanish arrested them in 1767.

Let me also clarify one point you have wrong in your last post. Spain was not under religious control of Rome. As a matter of fact, Spain was often at odds with the Church. Most Spanish Mine Owners treated their workers (Indians) as slaves. The Jesuits railed against this treatment, and caused a lot of friction between the Jesuits and the Spanish Authorities. There are good sources that state the Jesuits themselves brought a lot of slaves into the New World. I can't say for certain as to the details of that subject, because it doesn't have anything to do with my interest in Jesuit History. My only question to the Jesuit Apologists out there is this: "If the Jesuits treated those poor Indians so well, then why were the Jesuits themselves the targets of EVERY Pima, Yaqui, Papago, Tarahumara, and Opata Uprising?"

You seem to think that some great knowledge was necessary to make finished items from raw ore. That is not the case. Once the gold has been released from the ore (with Mercury or Cyanide), it is easy. People have been doing it for thousands of years who didn't have an inkling of the knowledge the Jesuits had.

Best-Mike

 

[lastleg]

Mike:

You say that it doesn't take great knowledge to process ore (gold) into
refined art objects? I guess that goes for silver ore too?

Thanks again for the info.

lastleg

 

[gollum]

Depends on the type of ore. You have to remember that just South of Tumacacori was what the Spanish called the Planchas De Plata. When it was first discovered, there were slabs of raw silver weighing hundreds of pounds found just laying on the ground. When that is the case, then no, it is not that difficult.

Just East and South of Tumacacori there was a ledge of silver found, called the "Wandering Jew Mines" that the ore consisted of high grade Galena interspersed with Copper. This is a little more work, but still no great feat for Jesuit scholars.

Best-Mike

 

[lamar]

Dear gollum;
You wrote:
My only question to the Jesuit Apologists out there is this:
Would that include moi
Your friend;
LAMAR

 

[gollum]

Dear gollum;
You wrote:
My only question to the Jesuit Apologists out there is this:
Would that include moi
Your friend;
LAMAR

HEEEEEEY Lamar,

I was wondering when you'd stop by.

You DO have your moments, I must say! HAHAHA! You're no Charles Polzer, but you do have your moments.

Take care-Mike