ColoradoMike
Full Member
What are the Treasure recovery laws in NM on public land??
Treasure laws of New Mexico
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Tom_in_CA
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Depends on what level of public land. There is city, county, state, and federal land, all within New Mexico. Each city, county, and state can have its own rules.
But I'll save you some time right now: No matter what type public land you detect on, there are lost & found laws on the books. For example: If you were walking down the street, and see a diamond ring, or a bundle of $100 bills wrapped in a rubber band, let's say you pick it up. You may think "oh gee my lucky day" right? Wrong. There are laws that state that if the find exceeds a certain dollar amount (amt. depends on the city, county, or state) of value (here's where it gets speculative of whether that means resale, or retail), that you have to turn it in to the police for something like 30 days, to see if anyone comes forward to claim it. The value is usually something like $100 or $250, or whatever.
The reason for this law is obvious: let's say a Brinks Armored car back door opened up in error, and money spills out on the freeway. Do you REALLY think you can scoop up the money and say "haha, finders keepers, loosers weepers?" No. Of course, not. If Brinks finds out you scooped up the money, they'll want it back. And the time of loss is irrevelevent. If it happend a year ago, and you found it hidden in obscured bushes by the side of the road, I'm sure Brink's insurance company would be legally "all over you" to get "their" money back. So the same logic applies to people lost diamond rings, etc..
Some md'rs have tried to say that old coins would be outside of this law, because, for example, even though a 1901s quarter might be worth $10,000, you can try to argue that it's only worth ".25c". But let's say that YOU were the coin collector who lost it in modern times, and let's say YOU found out that a local md'r had found it: Believe me the judge would throw the book against your logic, if you tried to say "tough luck, I was under no obligation to turn this in". This has actually happened before (well, not with an '01 S quarter, but with a vintage coin collection) where a 4th grade kid brought his dad's coin collection to school for show & tell, and then passed them out to his friends at recess, to "make friends". Many of the coins were lost in the sandbox and in the turf, because the other grade school kids, who didn't recognize bust halves, silver dollars, etc... thought they were like play money. Subsequent to this, a guy was plying the sandbox (without knowing anything about the old coins lost there), and found about a dozen choice valuable coins! He initially thought "gee, the sand that was used to fill this sandbox, must've come from an old beach". Or "Gee, there must've been a stage stop or old campsite before this school was built in the 1940s", etc.. Eventually it came to light what had happened. So you tell me: is this a case of finders-keepers? If the coin-collector were to be enlightened of where his collection ended up, would he loose all legal claim? Of course not! (face value of coins not withstanding).
And if you ask a lawyer "but what if the coin was lost over 100 yrs. ago? Obviously claimants are long since dead". The legal answer is, that the law makes no distinction of WHEN an item is lost (because, look at the case of the sandbox above: the finder simply didn't know where the coins were coming from. And if the finder is allowed to "make that judgement", well guess what? we'd ALL be saying "gee I guess this was lost 100 yrs. ago" doh!)
Or put another way: If you walk into ANY city or county or state offices ANYWHERE in the United states, and hold up a diamond ring, and say "Hi, I found this in your park. Am I allowed to keep this?" What do you think they would say? Of course the clerk would say "no", and take it from you, to " ...... pass on to the proper authorities".
But as you can see by a simple look through the various metal detecting "finds" forums, people in our hobby routinely find sometimes valuable things (jewelry, valuable coins, valuable CW relics, etc...) and this whole legal concept just doesn't even enter into the equation. Guys on the beach anywhere you go are a common site. They are just ignored. Barring something trace-able (insurer's engraving's inside) or perhaps Craigs-list lost & found ad, these things have always just been assumed to be finders-keepers. Are we all probably breaking the law? Sure!
Another reason for the "turn in found valuables" laws, are because without these laws, any thief caught red-handed with stolen goods, could merely say "I found them on the street". Sure, he can say that, but it will not hold legal muster. Because then he would simply be in violation of the "found valuables" laws. So he looses either way. Without such a law, all theives would have an instant "out". So although these laws were probably not meant to cover things like found valuables in the course of metal dedtecting, there is no legal reason why they can't be, if you asked enough questions, of enough bureaucrats and lawyers.
But I'll save you some time right now: No matter what type public land you detect on, there are lost & found laws on the books. For example: If you were walking down the street, and see a diamond ring, or a bundle of $100 bills wrapped in a rubber band, let's say you pick it up. You may think "oh gee my lucky day" right? Wrong. There are laws that state that if the find exceeds a certain dollar amount (amt. depends on the city, county, or state) of value (here's where it gets speculative of whether that means resale, or retail), that you have to turn it in to the police for something like 30 days, to see if anyone comes forward to claim it. The value is usually something like $100 or $250, or whatever.
The reason for this law is obvious: let's say a Brinks Armored car back door opened up in error, and money spills out on the freeway. Do you REALLY think you can scoop up the money and say "haha, finders keepers, loosers weepers?" No. Of course, not. If Brinks finds out you scooped up the money, they'll want it back. And the time of loss is irrevelevent. If it happend a year ago, and you found it hidden in obscured bushes by the side of the road, I'm sure Brink's insurance company would be legally "all over you" to get "their" money back. So the same logic applies to people lost diamond rings, etc..
Some md'rs have tried to say that old coins would be outside of this law, because, for example, even though a 1901s quarter might be worth $10,000, you can try to argue that it's only worth ".25c". But let's say that YOU were the coin collector who lost it in modern times, and let's say YOU found out that a local md'r had found it: Believe me the judge would throw the book against your logic, if you tried to say "tough luck, I was under no obligation to turn this in". This has actually happened before (well, not with an '01 S quarter, but with a vintage coin collection) where a 4th grade kid brought his dad's coin collection to school for show & tell, and then passed them out to his friends at recess, to "make friends". Many of the coins were lost in the sandbox and in the turf, because the other grade school kids, who didn't recognize bust halves, silver dollars, etc... thought they were like play money. Subsequent to this, a guy was plying the sandbox (without knowing anything about the old coins lost there), and found about a dozen choice valuable coins! He initially thought "gee, the sand that was used to fill this sandbox, must've come from an old beach". Or "Gee, there must've been a stage stop or old campsite before this school was built in the 1940s", etc.. Eventually it came to light what had happened. So you tell me: is this a case of finders-keepers? If the coin-collector were to be enlightened of where his collection ended up, would he loose all legal claim? Of course not! (face value of coins not withstanding).
And if you ask a lawyer "but what if the coin was lost over 100 yrs. ago? Obviously claimants are long since dead". The legal answer is, that the law makes no distinction of WHEN an item is lost (because, look at the case of the sandbox above: the finder simply didn't know where the coins were coming from. And if the finder is allowed to "make that judgement", well guess what? we'd ALL be saying "gee I guess this was lost 100 yrs. ago" doh!)
Or put another way: If you walk into ANY city or county or state offices ANYWHERE in the United states, and hold up a diamond ring, and say "Hi, I found this in your park. Am I allowed to keep this?" What do you think they would say? Of course the clerk would say "no", and take it from you, to " ...... pass on to the proper authorities".
But as you can see by a simple look through the various metal detecting "finds" forums, people in our hobby routinely find sometimes valuable things (jewelry, valuable coins, valuable CW relics, etc...) and this whole legal concept just doesn't even enter into the equation. Guys on the beach anywhere you go are a common site. They are just ignored. Barring something trace-able (insurer's engraving's inside) or perhaps Craigs-list lost & found ad, these things have always just been assumed to be finders-keepers. Are we all probably breaking the law? Sure!
Another reason for the "turn in found valuables" laws, are because without these laws, any thief caught red-handed with stolen goods, could merely say "I found them on the street". Sure, he can say that, but it will not hold legal muster. Because then he would simply be in violation of the "found valuables" laws. So he looses either way. Without such a law, all theives would have an instant "out". So although these laws were probably not meant to cover things like found valuables in the course of metal dedtecting, there is no legal reason why they can't be, if you asked enough questions, of enough bureaucrats and lawyers.
ivan salis
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thats why with "unmarked" items or non unique type "found" jewelry items -- few if any detectorist ask any questions -- if its not marked or easily tracible to a "known owner" --too bad so sad -- finders keepers is how its veiwed by most folks -- only exception would be if someone was clearly in the area looking for said "lost item"--
basically if it means that much to you --have it marked with your name fer petes sake, in that case by law a person is morally and legally bound to turn it in. ---but if its "blank" -- its finders keepers in most folks point of veiw -- because turning in a "blank" unmarked plain jane wedding band is just silly --because anyone can walk into a police lost and found and go --uh has anyone turned in a 14 k gold wedding band size 12 ? (or what every their finger size is ) and score a ring.
basically if it means that much to you --have it marked with your name fer petes sake, in that case by law a person is morally and legally bound to turn it in. ---but if its "blank" -- its finders keepers in most folks point of veiw -- because turning in a "blank" unmarked plain jane wedding band is just silly --because anyone can walk into a police lost and found and go --uh has anyone turned in a 14 k gold wedding band size 12 ? (or what every their finger size is ) and score a ring.
Tom_in_CA
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Ivan, you say: "but if its "blank" -- its finders keepers in most folks point of veiw - ". Yes, this is the common perception, and actual practice. But is it legal? No. Even if "blank" or "plain", the law makes no exceptions.
Your observation of the risk involved in duly keeping this law is right on. I mean, if I walk into the police dept. closest to the beach I'm detecting at, and turn in a Rolex watch I found, what's to stop that clerk ..... that night when she gets home ...... from calling her friend and saying "hey Joe, want a nice rolex watch? Come down to the police station tomorrow and here's the size, description and place-of-loss to tell us. And then guess what? You've got yourself a nice rolex!"
While I'm sure there's lots of honest police dept. personell, you've got to figure that it's not just the one desk clerk whom you turn it over to, that can have eventual knowledge of the lost and found items. I mean, who else there can have access to the daily routines of what passes over the front desk? I mean, probably many levels of personell there have access to the computers, and can "pass on the word" to their friends willing to "ID" something.
While this seems low-down and dirty, you've got to put yourself in their shoes too: Just as you and I don't think it's "low down and dirty" to "selfishly" keep something on our mantle place (while in fact the looser of the item may be home weeping, and searching lost & founds everywhere), so too might the police think "what does this finder care?? It's not his anyhow. He turned it in, and it was lost, and no one's property. So if it reaches the 29th day and no other claimant has come forward, why should this finder care? It wasn't his to begin with, and he fully expects that a claimant may actually come forward". And so on, and so forth, the human mind can rationalize. If you think that's criminal to think such a way, then why are we all readily willing to keep the things we find, and ALSO make no effort to find the owner? Because quite simply, in our minds, the person who lost it has long-since given it up as lost. So the same logic can enter in to the police dept. desk personell's mindset.
I've often thought about purposefully putting my own wedding band at various police dept's, waiting 30 days, and see if someone "claims it", *JUST* to test this theory I have about things "dissappearing" once you turn them over to the police.
Your observation of the risk involved in duly keeping this law is right on. I mean, if I walk into the police dept. closest to the beach I'm detecting at, and turn in a Rolex watch I found, what's to stop that clerk ..... that night when she gets home ...... from calling her friend and saying "hey Joe, want a nice rolex watch? Come down to the police station tomorrow and here's the size, description and place-of-loss to tell us. And then guess what? You've got yourself a nice rolex!"
While I'm sure there's lots of honest police dept. personell, you've got to figure that it's not just the one desk clerk whom you turn it over to, that can have eventual knowledge of the lost and found items. I mean, who else there can have access to the daily routines of what passes over the front desk? I mean, probably many levels of personell there have access to the computers, and can "pass on the word" to their friends willing to "ID" something.
While this seems low-down and dirty, you've got to put yourself in their shoes too: Just as you and I don't think it's "low down and dirty" to "selfishly" keep something on our mantle place (while in fact the looser of the item may be home weeping, and searching lost & founds everywhere), so too might the police think "what does this finder care?? It's not his anyhow. He turned it in, and it was lost, and no one's property. So if it reaches the 29th day and no other claimant has come forward, why should this finder care? It wasn't his to begin with, and he fully expects that a claimant may actually come forward". And so on, and so forth, the human mind can rationalize. If you think that's criminal to think such a way, then why are we all readily willing to keep the things we find, and ALSO make no effort to find the owner? Because quite simply, in our minds, the person who lost it has long-since given it up as lost. So the same logic can enter in to the police dept. desk personell's mindset.
I've often thought about purposefully putting my own wedding band at various police dept's, waiting 30 days, and see if someone "claims it", *JUST* to test this theory I have about things "dissappearing" once you turn them over to the police.
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