Treasure Coast Diggers... how old is this anchor?

[signumops]

I shot these this past August using a disposable 35 mm and just got them developed a week or so back. This is an anchor near Mickey Mouse Beach (Wabasso south). I had to really work these shots over with a digital editor to get them even this legible. Shot very near shore... lucky to be able to see anything at all.

Anyway, the black container is a 2 gal. plastic garden pot filled with concrete attached to a buoy and the ruler is a steel yard stick. The anchor is about 7 feet long and the shank is about 5 inches in diameter. No ring left, and one of the flukes is almost completely rusted off. The other fluke is about a foot long.

Found it using a towable detector (Fisher Mk II) and blew it out, but it has been exposed periodically. Small red ballast nearby like that on the Cabin Wreck. Anybody seen this one before, and/or have any exact idea of its age? (well, venture a guess).

 

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[stevemc]

That is most likely a 1715 anchor, but I cant really see it all and in detail for all the algae. If it has no iron stock(crossbar) then it is made prior to 1800. Looks like no stock, since its laying flat. Also if no chain, prior also. I would say 1715 because they(modern salvors) usually leave anchors and cannons to mark the wreck, and plus they are hard to conserve properly. I know on that wreck (Disney resort) there are cannons too. Had a ring, no shackle-good. They stay good underwater, but when you bring them out, and if you do nothing, they will start flaking apart fairly quickly. They need to sit in fresh water for a long time, then if possible be reverse electrosysised, rinsed well, dryed thoroughly, and then painted in a penetrating paint, such as an oil based Derusto that was thinned down with mineral spirits to get it deep in any little pores and cracks. Then maybe a coat of unthinned oil base paint.

 

[signumops]

I'd never remove it from where it is. Too much work to conserve, and, it serves a purpose now as a registered mag target if need be. But, I don't think it was on dry land... its fast to the bottom now. I believe there are three wrecks lying in the vicinity, and one is early 1600's. Another is 1715, supposedly, and the third is also a 1600 era.

 

[rgecy]

Great find! Have you checked the coordinates to see if it was in one of the lease areas? I know there is one or two anchors from the San Martin near shore. Approximately how far south was it from Disney or the public beach access?

I will send you some coordinates on the 1618 anchor and see if they are close.

Keep us posted!

Cornelius, there ARE three known wrecks in the area! This is right in the middle of the 1715 fleet and just north of the 1618 San Martin and 1715 Corrigans.

The San Martin also went down with another ship that has never been found, so there is another 1600's wreck that is unaccounted for in the vicinity.

Robert

 

[signumops]

Robert:
Its definitely within a Fisher boundary, and Taffi says it was first found in 98, but the operator, whoever he was, faded out of the picture. Meanwhile, it looks older than 1715 to me. Too big to be toted around by a few crewmen, so it got there on wreckage somehow, and, its pointing seaward. Could have been an original salvor, but, if it is 1715, then, due to its location, there was a hunk of junk on the beach to go with it. That's my real interest.

On the other hand, if it is not 1715, I think I will spend more time looking nearby. Anyway, I guess the pics aren't good enough to draw any appraisals.

Incidentally, aside from the tender with the Honduran Almirante, I have read other accounts of another smaller caravel lost there before 1618, all by its lonesome. You heard the same thing maybe.

There were some folks paying close attention to our operations as we were doing what we do, so I presume that this item is not necessarily news. These people were pretty nervy: I know the boat, but could not make out the crew. Could a been a boat full of divers having a seance I guess.

 

[rgecy]

Cornelius, I certainly understand your point of view, but there is very little question to the period of the ships that have been found. The research and artifacts recovered to date are substantial and each one has been meticulously recorded, cataloged and analysed.

Signumops,

I will get those coordinates to you later tonight. When did all this take place?

 

[mad4wrecks]

Here is an article I found which reflects just how long ago the salvage of the 1618 San Martin wreck has occurred.

Some of the books I've read give the impression that the wreck was first discovered by the Real Eight Co. during their searches for the 1715 fleet.

Tom

 

[signumops]

Tom;
Thanks! That's where those bronze guns came from, no doubt. I am looking for others, but still think that there are two other wrecks dispersed in the same area. Great investigation! Throw me some more bones!

 

[armchairQB30]

I have a feeling this thread is gonna get good.

 

[itmaiden]

The only thing is you get into the merging of artifacts here. I found some silver reale pieces (1715), right behind Disney. Oxidized and not of any value except for their history. Nothing else on the beach through this section, the many times I've been there. I am sure the reales were off the Corrigan most likely. Never found anything on the North side of the lifeguard station.

The question is, were there one or 2 possible 1600 fleet wrecks along here. I know of a couple of older wrecks undiscovered, and maybe one is related to Capt. Doms wreck, but the other is quite old and I haven't found any other wrecks near it. The hull is either 1500's (most likely) or possibly 1600's.

itmaiden

Tom;
Thanks! That's where those bronze guns came from, no doubt. I am looking for others, but still think that there are two other wrecks dispersed in the same area. Great investigation! Throw me some more bones!

 

[mad4wrecks]

Some more details...including a possible bell.

 

[elle]

Just south of Sandy Point is probably the answer to the wreck of Carr, McKee, and King.

They most likely sold all the cannon, which is very unfortunate, because those artifacts represented a story in history.

 

[mad4wrecks]

Even back in 1955, those guys were smart enough not to give proper distances and coordinates to the newspapers.

While it is possible these articles are referring to Sandy Point, there is unquestionable evidence that Mckee, King and Carr salvaged a number of artifacts off the Green Cabin wreck, including several bronze cannon.

 

[elle]

They were also working Sandy Point at other times.
Reporting was a little more reliable back in the 1950's.
This made the Fort Pierce paper twice. Seems to have been quite a story.

 

[Chagy]

I have all this information on my old laptop that crashed and burned a while back but I am almost sure I shared this information with Tom some time ago…Tom wasn’t a guy from the Miami River the one who found the 4 bronze cannons on the San Miguel? I know I have the guy’s name and the name of his company…If my memory serves me well the guy had ether a UW salvage company (not a treasure hunter) or dredging company…I even think I have a picture of these 4 cannons in his yard next to the Miami River….

Terry,

The San Miguel was only carrying 5 bronze cannons so there is one left for you out there!!!!

I have always been obsessed with the San Miguel because I know there has to be a great treasure waiting for the lucky person who finds it….I know that the manifest says that it was not carrying any treasure..But let me remind you that every single year 2 galleons I repeat “galleons” were send to Honduras (in some years up to 6 galleons) and this was called the small Honduras fleet…5% from all the precious metal that was brought back to Spain from the New World came from Honduras and the best years of mining silver and gold in Honduras were from 1550 to 1650 which puts the San Miguel in that time frame..See other accounts and you will understand what I am talking about… for example it is well documented that in 1563 only 2 galleons were send to Honduras these 2 galleons were part of the 5 vessels lost on the fleet commanded by Juan Menendez it is also well documented that these 2 galleons made it to Montecristi and that ALL THE TREASURE was transferred to the Almiranta of the fleet and all the TREASURE was placed in a safe place in Santo Domingo until the fallowing year when it was picked up by the 1564 fleet……Do not expect to find large amounts of coins in the San Martin because there was no mint close by but do expect to find gold and silver bars, disc’s and gold dust….See Honduras has had 3 capitals 1st Comayagua, then Trujillo and finally Tegusigalpa…Why? Well as they were finding gold and silver they changed the capital to the place were there was more production……

Go find it Terry!!!!

 

[Chagy]

Last time I dove in the San Martin I was with Jason my son and Capt Brad Dalton aka Scubadude…..On the last dive of the day Jason was my diving partner we had just jumped in the water, Jason was using my JW Pulse 8X and I was digging the hits when I saw this very interesting pocket on the edge of the reef and I signaled him to swing the MD in the pocket…Man that needle went all the way to 10 it was a very strong hit…As you would imagine we looked at each other and started to dig…we where there digging for over half and hour when suddenly I get tabbed in my shoulder it was Capt. Dalton to let us know there was a strong storm approaching us when I looked up I saw the bottom of the Conquistador rocking like there was no tomorrow so we had to surface…What ever it was is was pretty big….Yes I do have the coordinates…LOL

Terry,

I just finished my last research request and I have started a new investigation on 7 or 8 east coast wrecks some of which we have talked about in the past they are all early 1600 and 1500s…Right now I have no funds or sources to hunt these since I know you are active in the water once I have more information I will post the general information here and I will send your way the good stuff..I am not asking for anything in return how ever if you do find something based on my research please do keep me in mind and after disbursement save a little box of the shinny stuff for the Chagyman……OK!!!

 

[ScubaFinder]

I remember that day well Chagy...it has never left my mind. There was definitely something large under that coral...and the way the detector was screaming I don't think it was iron. That thing will haunt me until we go back and get it someday.

See you soon!

Jason

 

[mad4wrecks]

Chagy, are we talking about the San Miguel or the San Martin

I am pretty sure The Miami River guy you are referring to was Capt. Art Hempstead.

I am not so sure about you providing me with that information-I first heard about Hempstead many years ago in an article I found in the Ft Pierce library. Since then, I have found other references to his salvage activity (pre-Google days when a researcher actually had to do some footwork)

Art supposedly salvaged a bronze cannon off Bethel Shoals but I never read anything about him being involved in the salvage of the San Martin however.

 

[Chagy]

Chagy, are we talking about the San Miguel or the San Martin

I am pretty sure The Miami River guy you are referring to was Capt. Art Hempstead.

I am not so sure about you providing me with that information-I first heard about Hempstead many years ago in an article I found in the Ft Pierce library. Since then, I have found other references to his salvage activity (pre-Google days when a researcher actually had to do some footwork)

Art supposedly salvaged a bronze cannon off Bethel Shoals but I never read anything about him being involved in the salvage of the San Martin however.

Sorry yes the San Martin

Ahh Tommy boy are you losing your memory on me now!!!! A few years ago we tuck a trip to a certain place there in a room I saw a box in the floor I got on my knees and reached for the box for our surprise it was full of old shipwreck articles…we both made copies of that article…go take off the dust of that old box you have somewhere and look for it…lol here is a pic of the article maybe this will bring back some memories…later on I found more information related to the article and that is what I have in my old laptop.

By the way not sure what you mean when you wrote (pre-Google days when a researcher actually had to do some footwork) I hope you are not referring to me but just in case and to protect my good reputation as a researcher here are some pics of some of my archival documents and research…..

 

[Goldminer]

In 1962, I was hired by Bertram Yacht Co. right after they first got started. We moved the plant from Hialeah to the Miami river area about a year later. I visited many places along the river, and one was the Hempstead yard. I saw those four bronze cannons many times. I remember that someone said that they were presentation cannons, as some type of plaque was associated with them. Anyone remember that ?