trade copper and other metal pieces and trade beads

[larson1951]

Russy is helping me put my stuff into frames so that by the time I grow up it will look sorta like SRV's collection
the first few images show the 2 frames he made for me yesterday along with a bone knife handle with a trade copper blade
I did not find the blade and the handle together but they kind of fit good enuff to illustrate how it worked
since the other knife I found with the copper culture blade has been posted I did not include it in this thread
images 3, 4, and 5 show trade copper bangles made for jingle dresses along with other metal pieces found with my metal detector
the last3 images show the long trade copper blade and 4 points along with the sheet iron spear point and some trade beads
hope you like this
larson1951
I want to add that the bone handle and blade were found 10 years apart and do not belong together like the banner find a few weeks ago

 

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[Neogeo]

FANTASTIC!!!!I knew you had some copper stuff,but dang.Those are so sweet,I will be looking at these offten...like again right now..lol Thanx for the look......Neo

 

[pickaway]

Great frames, Love the artifacts thanks for the look!

 

[Martingeetars]

Spec-tac-u-lar You find the neatest stuff,boy howdy thats a nice group of artifacts!

 

[The Grim Reaper]

WOW!!! Very nice pieces larson. We only have two sites where we can find Trade Beads and Copper artifacts, mostly Beads. I have only seen a couple of Dangles from either site and I think one was actually made from Brass. Unfortunately one site is off limits now and the other is in the flood plain and gets a lot of sediment on it. I have one buddy that has some very cool pieces from there. He has a few points, some Trade Beads, Shell Buttons, and a really cool Copper Bracelet. I only hunted the site a couple of times and never found much.

 

[Newt]

My favorite period. I have only found 2 pieces from then.
Newt

 

[FatCat]

Congrats on the finds. What are the bullet looking objects in the top corners?

 

[larson1951]

thanks fatcat, those are bullets,
I think that the ones in the top corners could be 45-70 bullets
the bottom corner are a different, the bottom right might be another 45-70
the bottom left is a smaller caliber but I have no idea what
I think I will measure all 4 bullets and post the calibers
larson1951

 

[larson1951]

thanks 11KBP,
top two are .45
bottom right is .44 (I think)
bottom left is .35
they are kinda hard to measure
I used a micrometer and also a dial calipers but these old bullets are bit out of round if you know what I mean
could the top ones be 45-60? or are they for sure 45-70?
what is your opinion on the two pieces on the bottom
I thank you in advance for any info you may have or any type of info you can post here
after finding that gun flint I am trying to figure out when these different bullets as well as the gun flint were used and how the rifles looked
if anyone can give any dates or info on these bullets as well as the gun flint I would be happy to hear about them
larson1951

 

[larson1951]

ok thankyou mr. 11kbp and j brown,
i have 2 casings
i will find them and take pictures and post as soon as i can figure out where they are
i am a lot more interested since you guys have been giving me this information
once again, thank you
larson1951

 

[A. Grignon]

Some one commented on your copper culture points and I would have to say I think they are trade era points made out of kettle scrap. I have found a few and they look identical to the ones you have pictured. Judging by the tinklers, trade kettle scrap points, the iron trade point, and the beads I would guess a mid 1700's occupation in that area at least. Here are some trade kettle scrap points and a authentic copper culture point to show the differences. Copper culture point is at top.

And just a little more info to help you out. The copper culture actually predates the bow and arrow, so any "authentic" copper culture points would be in a spear point form. I think the smaller, thinner, lighter kettle scrap points would be used with a bow and arrow.

 

[larson1951]

thanks for your contribution and for sharing your knowledge
i don't know much about this subject but thanks to you guys I know a lot more than I ever did
the info is much appreciated
once again, thanks much
larson1951

 

[larson1951]

thanks grignon,
can you please explain to me what trade kettle scrap means?
also thanks for posting the pictures here
lars


thanks j brown,
would you be so kind as to post some images of your brit and french gun flints on this thread?
i thank you in advance for this favor
i think i found a french flint and would like to compare what yours look like to mine
i hope i can find that piece, i think it got mixed into a coffee can full of scrapers some place
lars

 

[Buckhunter]

Wow that is the best frame of copper that this old Missouri boy has ever seen, you are truly in a great area for copper. In 25 years I have found only one piece and seen only one more from this area.

 

[A. Grignon]

Trade kettle scrap, I guess to me and others in this area simply means, scrap from a trade era kettle. Copper kettles were a commonly traded item. When the kettle wore out or cracked (if it could not be fixed) it was "scrapped out". They would cut it up into pieces to make patches for other kettles, tinkler cones, projectile points, hair tubes, or whatever they could use the scrap for.
I have found some scrap pieces that along the cut lines you can see score marks, where they "scored" the metal first and then by cutting or bending were able to shape it. Some times score marks are not visible due to sharpening of the points. If this is the case your points would have beveled edges. My guess is they are very thin and were probably just cut out of scrap. Excellent finds!

 

[larson1951]

thanks much J
I sure appreciate the images and the info
now i know i have some french gun flints and have found some brits also
what is weird is that yesterday morning i was holding one and lookin' at it and then i tossed it back on the ground cuz i didn't know that it was a
brit gun flint
now that i know more i can probably come up with some
and i thank you much Mr j brown for this knowledge
i also have some more copper stuff to post on this thread for you'all to look at
larson1951

 

[*Molly*]

Lars I have some red glass beads with a gold line running through them. I would like you to have them. I found them on a campsite in NC. I don't collect glass beads only bone. I'll get them off to you with a few other things I have..
Excellent frames, nice to see something different.

Molly.

 

[larson1951]

here are a few more things some found w/metal detector
don't know what the flat copper piece is, does anybody?
3rd image is a broke copper fish hook, al found a complete one just like it
last 2 images are 2 punches both about the same except that one is copper and one appears to be iron or steel cuz it has rust rather than copper sulfate(blue-green hue to it)
lars

 

[Neogeo]

Dang man your killin me lol...Great artifacts.....

 

[DisplacedBuckeye]

Those frames are absolutely astounding ! ! ! Do you or any one else know what kind of material the white beads on the left hand side of the1st and 2nd are made of ?Thanks for the great pics !