To me it is the same situation!

The diffrance is they stood up for their rights and got their property back,,,,see,,, whining about it on the computer gets you no where,,as you can see in this video people need to take real (peaceful),action,,here is a very clear example of a tactic that works.its all about public suppourt and strength in numbers. Getting people to do something other than talk about it seems to be the hard part.
This video shows there is something we can do if we work at it!
 

timberjack said:
The diffrance is they stood up for their rights and got their property back,,,,see,,, whining about it on the computer gets you no where,,as you can see in this video people need to take real (peaceful),action,,here is a very clear example of a tactic that works.its all about public suppourt and strength in numbers. Getting people to do something other than talk about it seems to be the hard part.
This video shows there is something we can do if we work at it!
Click to expand...

I stood up to the USFS with the help of many miners here on Tnet,all across the west coast and Congressman Tom McClintock and got all my equipment back.

So whining about it on the computer does get you some where!
 

Saw on another forum already-time for yet another 1776 to throw off the yoke of oppression. Thanx much for going through all the posts on your fight with FS and winning???? Well that is yet another subject for over a fire someday-John
 

I can recall the first time the "greenies" started to protest and fight the logging of timber off of the "public's" USFS and BLM administered lands. "THEY CLIMBED UP INTO, AND SAT IN TREES, THAT WERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A TIMBER SALE". They made the news big time....and they simply would not come down out of the trees. They became known as "TREE HUGGERS". Then they moved on to even "SPIKING" the trees. All this was done in the name of saving old growth trees! But it began the era of "eco" civil disobedience and brought forth a whole "greenie" movement....IMHO.

Civil disobedience works and is very effective when one knows how to "play the game". In the Hefty case it was a matter of knowing law/rules/regs and applying those effectively. And the majority of that knowledge came from the forums/net/research. BUT had Congressman Tom McClintock's office not gotten involved it would have been extremely hard for Hefty to have applied pressure on the USFS....as the USFS and Sheriffs office/DA were NOT cooperating at all.

At times politicians are helpful and definitely can be swayed by public support. Civil disobedience is an effective tool. Using the net to gain support for that act is in itself a good thing. I would offer that the internet has made things a lot easier.....as communication is key to gaining ground. IMHO.

So both Hefty and timberjack are correct......it takes a variety of methods to gain ground. Talk can lead to action. Motivation is gained when we can orate our concerns....and motivation is a key factor.

I think it may be time to employ a vast array of methods that work. In geology we had a saying: "The Past is the Key to the Future". Meaning what has happened in the past tells us what will happen in the future. Same can be said about the tactics employed by the eco crowd.......extremism has a place in politics:.....it gains attention! They have been effective using that tactic!

Bejay
 

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I believe it is important to note that a judge gave a ruling that the BLM could remove cows. The judge ruled that the rancher was in violation. BUT the BLM found it extremely hard to overcome a showing of public civil disobedience....and ended up with egg on their face....BIG TIME! So now the actions against the rancher....who is ruled in violation......will be acted upon in a different way.

Judges can make things a mess: no doubt about it!

Bejay
 

What i should have said is you did more than whine about it, you stood up for your rights, rallied support of others in your cause and you accomplished your goal. I think you are a great example of getting it done and showing others it can be done. . I was reffering to many who bemoan our situation and do nothing about it,,i should have had that second cup of coffe this morning
 

The one lesson I have learned throughout my observation of the most recent example of big govt. vs. the citizens is, the vote I cast for my sheriff may be the most important one.
 

thanks Hefty
it would be nice if we could all come together, dredges mounted on our trucks, on someones claim, maybe along HWY 49, or front of izzy place? Neveda city
Kerby Jackson
Chairman - Jefferson Mining District

When will we finally, as a group, stand together against this criminal assault on a fellow miner?

Oh, so you're too busy huh?

I'll venture to guess that if it was your property stolen in an illegal act, you'd make the time to be involved...

There is power in numbers.. why can't most of you understand that



 

Basically the internet is what the town crier was 200 300 years ago.It spreads the news that mainstream is paid not to tell.
 

Well I can admit to being an activist utilizing information to gain public and political support. I have orchestrated and committed civil protest but I don't think I would call it disobedience. That is not to say that such civil disobedience is wrong. I believe it should be applied when the Gov oversteps its' bounds....no doubt about it...IMHO.

Many will attest to the fact that I and some other miners have spent a number of years trying to learn all we can about mining rules/regs/laws/policies/etc. And I am still active doing so as moderator of the http://americanmininglawforum.myfastforum.org/index.php. I personally believe the correct application of civil disobedience must be derived from a failure by our gov/agencies/politicians/etc to abide by the correct application of laws that bring forth incorrect administrative polices. Lately we are seeing a vast amount of such incorrect gov application of rules/regs/laws/policies by agencies such as the BLM and USFS as well
as States. I highly suggest that miners learn as much as they can about mining law/ rules/ regs/ policies/ etc. in order to gain knowledge that can lead to formidable protest.

In the Hefty case the local sheriffs' office was in cahoots with the USFS. And the DA supported the local sheriff. No doubt the sheriff position is important.

Knowledge is very important and such knowledge can turn the tide. The public can be very supportive of those they think are in the right....as seen in the Rancher Cow case. I would highly recommend watching Pitkin vs USFS video case; as it exemplifies the ability to protest effectively....as the townspeople were going to "ACT"...... and it made a difference.
http://alpineparadise.com/pitkin-colorado-vs-the-united-states-forest-service/

Bejay
 

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Anybody else notice the Fed agent behind the shield on the right side of the SUV has what appears to be a paintball gun with the hopper attached to the top of the gun. The scene just after the wranglers advance towards the fence line in the wash.
 

AzViper said:
Anybody else notice the Fed agent behind the shield on the right side of the SUV has what appears to be a paintball gun with the hopper attached to the top of the gun. The scene just after the wranglers advance towards the fence line in the wash.
Click to expand...

Yea AZ...thats a pepperball gun.
 

1509856_510330999078101_2371901826226647562_n.jpg
 

Hefty1 said:
To me...it is the same dam thing!

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/293175-california-miner-needs-help-after-usfs-employee-steals-his-property-claim.html


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD61YFxUga4&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...
Just something to think about: My dog is in "heat", consequently, I have a big pit-bull hanging around, who's in LOVE/LUST. Since I don't want to have to find homes for a litter of puppies, I have to keep a constant watch, and run him off everytime I see him. Funny thing is, I can run him off through the front-yard, and 5 minutes later, he mysteriously and unexpectedly shows up, coming in the back-yard. So, I can pretty well assume that he hasn't given up. (lol) Anyway, government is a lot like this pit-bull. Once they get it in thier heads that they want something, THEY DON'T GIVE UP!!

You might want to take the time to listen to what these gentlemen have to say. Frankly, I believe they're right:


If you've ever taken the oath to the US, keep in mind that just because you've discharged from the military, or retired from Law Enforcement, that doesn't mean that the oath that you took is 'null and void'. We are all protectors of our own rights and need to be ever vigilant to any usurpers of those rights. Talk is an empty threat until you show that you're ready to back it up with force. Diplomacy first and if that doesn't work, then, lock and load!!

Fortunately, in Hefty1's case, HEAVY diplomacy worked. Incidently, congratulations on your victory. But, I'm sure that it cost more than you recovered, both physically and mentally.
 

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