To Clean or NOT to Clean?

[Michigan Badger]

This cleaning thing is really all about preference (unless you consider selling value).

I prefer to leave that green and a little corrosion on my dug coins. I think it gives them more character. To me, cleaned copper coins look almost pretentious.

Here are some photos of a couple of my more recent finds.

Note the coin on the right was heavily cleaned. The coin on the left is just as dug a couple weeks ago.

Note that the cleaned coin looks grainy (see closeup on date area) and has an almost fake look. That is, the red isn't right for this coin. The tone is off.

The uncleaned coin would do better on ebay even with the nick on the rim. It has a rather nice green patina.

Neither coin is valuable and both have close to the same wear. I'll take the one on the left any day!

Just my opinion.

 

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[Rusted_Iron]

I agree with you, Badger, I'd take the one on the left any day.

With ones cleaned by electrolysis, the pitting that's left behind is not directly caused by the electrolysis. It happens because there was corrosion compounds filling the pits which are now left open. The end result is the same- coin full of pits or having a grainy appearance. My first Mercury dime was a black disc. I did electrolysis on it and now it has a grainy appearance, but at least everything is clearly readable now. It's a common date coin anyway. The silver sulfide had eaten far into the surface; the coin was in a lake full of seaweed for probably 50 years.

I had a Flying Eagle cent that was so corroded it was basically worthless. So I did electrolysis on it. Now it's shiny and still worthless No details readable, just a mess.

I guess the question of "to clean or not to clean" depends a lot on the coin and its condition. There are a few on here who seem to think it's better to leave a badly-corroded slug in its as-dug condition, but that's where I draw the line. If the date and details are unreadable, might as well clean it (starting with the least radical method first.)

 

[PBK]

To Clean or NOT to Clean?

NOT.

Cleaning— by which I mean really aggressive cleaning: polishing, stripping, scouring, etc.— almost always equates to damage. Fields are hairlined, details are weakened or lost, and the "new" finish is unnatural and a real turn-off to any knowledgeable collector. Worst of all, you can never put back what you've taken away. Life's not perfect, and neither are dug coins... but it doesn't take 100% to pass. Learn to like 'em as you find 'em... I do!

 

[Michigan Badger]

If the date and details are unreadable, might as well clean it (starting with the least radical method first.)

I agree. Excellent.

Another approach for very bad coins is the rock tumbler 1/4 to 1/3 full of aquarium gravel and water. This wears down some corrosion and gradually reveals some detail. I've cleaned several American Colonial coins this way and the buyers loved them. The trick with the tumbler is you have to watch it and not overdo it.

I once cleaned up a silvered Roman coin this way. The tumbler gradually removed the corrosion and left an almost perfect silvering.

Best.

 

[PBK]

Okay, if it's so bad there's not much risk of making it even worse, then yeah... why not? All I'm saying is, if it's a choice between the two coins at the top of this thread, there is no way that I'd consider cleaning the one on the left.

As for buyers, hey, you can sell anything on eBay. And even some true collectors will settle for a really bad "filler" coin, rather than have a blank space. Different strokes, etc.

But is cleaning a good idea for most numismatically valuable coins grading a full Good or better? I don't think so, and I've seen a lot of disastrous "improvement" attempts that proved it.

 

[Rusted_Iron]

But is cleaning a good idea for most numismatically valuable coins grading a full Good or better?

Heck no. If it could grade as Good or higher, I agree to leave it alone. I have messed up my share of coins during my little "experiments", but I've never ruined anything worth more than about 5 bucks.

The Large Cent I'm working on now wouldn't even rank AG-3 on a good day. Corroded to the point where it's a "youguessit" coin, right now it's sitting in olive oil until I figure out what to do with it. Electrolysis is scratched off my list-- I don't ever want this thing to appear new and shiny.

Sometimes I'm even wondering... there could even be a place in my heart for those really badly-corroded copper discs where I can't even read the date After all, they are metal-detecting relics.

I like Badger's idea of slowly wearing away the corrosion until some detail comes out. I would buy a coin like that, if it meant being able to have one that I otherwise couldn't afford.

 

[Michigan Badger]

But is cleaning a good idea for most numismatically valuable coins grading a full Good or better?

I have messed up my share of coins during my little "experiments", but I've never ruined anything worth more than about 5 bucks.

I wish I could say this. I've toasted some pretty nifty coins in my day.

I used to have an awesome source for ancient Roman coins. I'd get them fresh dug with no detail showing. These where the big thick coins from about 24 to 40mm (ca.100 B.C to 900 A.D.). I paid the fellow 80 cents a piece for them. Later he sold them to me for 40 cents each! Better than half the coins turned out great.

One time I was using electrolysis on this big unknown Caesar coin and it looked almost mint. The detail was fabulous except it had one bad spot by his nose. I thought just a little more electrolysis and the whole coin will be perfect...WRONG! It ended up that suddenly his whole nose and part of his mouth were missing. The coin had gone from maybe hundreds of dollars to maybe $50 in a matter of seconds. I was so sick I gave it to my grandson.

 

[Michigan Badger]

To Clean or NOT to Clean?

NOT.

Cleaning— by which I mean really aggressive cleaning: polishing, stripping, scouring, etc.— almost always equates to damage. Fields are hairlined, details are weakened or lost, and the "new" finish is unnatural and a real turn-off to any knowledgeable collector. Worst of all, you can never put back what you've taken away. Life's not perfect, and neither are dug coins... but it doesn't take 100% to pass. Learn to like 'em as you find 'em... I do!

I know what you mean by "you can never put back what you've taken away." Many times I've wished I could. I've seen some really nasty cleaning jobs. In fact, I've done some of them myself. I did the bad coin posted here mainly to use here as an example of what not to do.

Today I may wash my dug coins and even give them a soak in water or mineral oil just to remove surface dirt but I try my best to leave most of the color now.

If a coin looks like a slug I may try a more drastic cleaning method.

 

[Don in SJ]

CLEAN? YES, But you better define clean, that IH of Badger's is not a cleaned Indian head it is a butcher job, almost looks like it was put in an acidic bath or alkaline bath!

Most coppers that come out of the ground need to be cleaned properly. First off, to stop the corrosion process, any of the coppers with any type of corrosion on it will continue over time to corrode especially if the corrosion is entrapped by encrusted dirt.

All moisture needs to be out of the coin also, so before putting them in a Mylar folder, make sure they have been thoroughly dried or else you will be creating a nice environment for continuing corrosion with the moisture trapped under the Mylar and in the coin.

I will apply Blue Ribbon Coin Conditioner on any cleaned copper that has any type of corrosion present. If the surface is not super smooth than the Blue Ribbon is applied in most cases.

Now as far as saying cleaning ruins value, hogwash, IMPROPER cleaning ruins value. Ground found coppers, and I am speaking mostly of Colonials, Federal era and early year Large Cents have desireablity by collectors but there already is one strike against you for it being a "grounder". But with proper cleaning and if the coin does not have corrosion damage, any Colonial Collector will gladly buy a colonial cleaned if it is a variety he needs.

Without cleaning the Colonials, Federals, and early year Large Cents, it is very hard to get the coin attributed. All the early year coins had varying amounts of varieties for each year and some are much more valueable than others. The only way to know if you have a $50 1794 Large Cent or a $5000 Large Cent is for the coin to be very readable on both sides for it to be attributed (identified by variety).

Most of us never sell our coins and they are OUR collection, so I sure want my collection to have the most pleasant looking coins that can be. So I take pride in my cleaning methods, protection, and attributions which I love to do.

Hopefully my attachments show, 1833 before and after shot, 1793 Half Cent as is from the ground, 1804 Spiked Chin Half Cent- cleaned and a 1796 Liberty Cap Large Cent AS IS from sugar sand. Wish all coppers came out of the ground like a copper does from sugar sand.

Don in SJ

 

[Michigan Badger]

Nice post, Don in SJ.

The Indian in my post received about 5 minutes of electrolysis and then was polished with a polishing paste. It turned the odd color as many copper/bronze coins do after electrolysis with or without polishing.

Great coins you have there! Very impressive indeed.

I think I would have tried mild soakings for all of them before totally stripping them.

I have coppers I've never cleaned from my first days of THing 40 years ago. They still look great as they came out of the ground. Some I've dried out and sealed with Renaissance Wax.

Just a matter of taste I guess.

Badger

 

[Don in SJ]

1833 before and after shot, 1793 Half Cent as is from the ground, 1804 Spiked Chin Half Cent- cleaned and a 1796 Liberty Cap Large Cent AS IS from sugar sand. Wish all coppers came out of the ground like a copper does from sugar sand.

Only the 1833 was really cleaned, I did nothing to the 1793 and 1796, the 1804 had encrusted dirt and was cleaned with Peroxide but it was an easy one......

Have many more that are fairly decent.......Good soil in South Jersey, there also is some good soil in Michigan, it has to be sandy to be good for drainage... I do not hunt farms, so I do not get a lot of coppers ruined by the fertilizer, just acidic soil is my enemy...

Here are some Colonials

 

[Dave N Japan]

Nice info and I would say I agree with all... I think I will try some of that blue ribbon on some of my bronze...The tumbler does work good on the type of coins that small scratches's don't matter..but are really bad off to begin with,, I have old bronze with some dirt still inside the deep cast writing and they look great and very real that way! Just some of the cave finds are really bad,,Yes, being in a dry cave can be very ,,,very bad! Look at the coins I found under(you think you have cleaning problems) The ones in the moist dirt stay i better shape. At least here in Okinawa. Thanks Guys!