rgecy
Bronze Member
I don't know how many here subscribe to SUB-ARCH, but I thought this was good reading for everyone. So much has been done to bridge the gap that exist between Archaeologist and Treasure Hunters. Kudos Taffi for such a well thought out example of how Treasure Hunters do care about the Archaeology of a site.
Makes for interesting reading. Taffi, if you read here, I hope you don't mind me posting it for all to see!
Robert Gecy
Makes for interesting reading. Taffi, if you read here, I hope you don't mind me posting it for all to see!
Robert Gecy
Philipe, Although I feel like I am sometimes wasting my time responding since we have answered these questions over and over, just people seem to ignore our reports exist since we are not invited to publish in your peer review materials because we are private sector, I will give you some info you may research to help you with your questions related to any of the Mel Fisher projects. I cannot speak for the Tortugas wreck with which we were not involved in any way.
You said:
I would just think that if there is a shipwreck excavation completely recorded, as everybody tells me, to the best standards, it is a pitty that it is not public.
When people talk about the dry tortugas shipwreck it is always the treasure that comes up. Was it 90 million? 5 million? 1 million? 200k? Nobody seems to know. (AH, $, who cares, lets see the artifacts and reports)
Answer: As time evolves, so does technology. Our first reports were all hand typed and graphs hand drawn. Reports of each seasons events have been given to State of Florida 1983 to date covering all East Coast Expedition artifacts recovered, ship time periods run from 1618, 1715, 1810, and 1824 wrecks interspersed together. These reports show more detail on timber layouts, dimensions, etc. David Moore did much work on the 1618 Portuguese merchant vessel while on our payroll about 20 years ago, I am not sure if he ever published his work for peer review, perhaps he can reply here. However, R.Duncan Mathewson and J.James Siclair and a whole team of students mostly being paid by us and a few volunteering, put together volumes on this effort over the last 24 years. All of these reports are publically availableFOR FREE by contacting the Department of Historical Resources, Bureau of Archaeological Resources, Dr. Ryan Wheeler.
Additionally, more than 38,000 artifacts have been donated to the State of Florida by us alone and are available for research thru Dr. Wheelers offices. The State of Florida gets to request artifacts on an annual basis from all recovered and have even received more than their allotted 20% annual donation, if the artifact warrents unique interest, such as the astrolabe from the San Martin or specialty or any other coins that are not pre-existing in their current collection from our previous years donations.
We also paid for copies of all handwritten logs from state archives for ALL salvors who EVER worked this area since the beginning of salvage in 1960,
along with State agents hand written notes of datums. 47 years of data, so
that we could digitize the entire 47 year efforts of the State and early salvors which is now complete database of finds and will be on our website database within the month, free of charge to anyone!
We also designed extremely complicated combinations of software processes to remap all data as far back as 1983, which we were told would be impossible. All location data collected by SOF field agents and salvors prior to 1983 is unrepeatable because of the technology used by both groups. Our pre-WASS mapping method included a sequence of events between several programs including Word mailmerge, Excel, Access, Autocad, and now SQL which maps to within inches.
Four published works I would recommend, may help you on your shipbuilding
questions:
"Wooden Ship, the Art, History, and Revival of Wooden Boatbuilding", author: Peter H. Spectre & David Larkin, Publisher: Houghton Mifflin, 1991 ISBN 0-395-56692-4 (ships in general Note: he also did a wonderful book on ships
fittings)
"Archaeological Treasure: The Search for Nuestra Senora de Atocha", author: R. Duncan Mathewson III, Publisher: Seafarers Heritage Library, 1983, ISBN 0-916149-00-5 (1715 Fleet & Margarita archaeological data and hypothesis)
"Search for the Motherload of the Atocha", author: Dr. Eugene Lyon,
publisher: Florida Classics Library, 1989 ISBN 0-912451-20-3 (Historical viewpoint, Atocha and Margarita: How and why a ship would be conceived?{greed, Christianity, exploration, transportation} sunk, salvaged, abandoned, resalvaged)
" " author: R. Duncan Mathewson III, publisher:
I got the below answers to your questions below from the above sources...you
can further your research by delving deeper into them if you like......
> There is so much to learn from a shipwreck
I agree
> How was it conceived?
In the mind of the builders and investors (Kings, Queens, an rich noblemen),
then sometimes on paper. WHY: ?{greed, Christianity, exploration,
transportation, or to deliver or retrieve cargo by enslaving or bartering
with other peoples in other ports}
> How were the timbers cut? and where?
With saws and other woodworking tools of the periods. (See first reference
book for details)
Atocha: built in 1620 in Havana, Cuba with wood from the indigenous tress
from Cuba's' forests, the complete shipwrights contract is on microfilm in
the archives in Seville, Spain and I believe also at MFMHS Museum in Key
West and another copy I believe in St. Augustine, FL
Margarita: Viscaya, Spain from indigenous trees- mostly Oak
San Martin : Spain, about 1613 from indigenous trees- mostly Oak
1715 Ships - Europe, from indigenous trees of Europe- mostly Oak
> How old were the trees? About 100 years old for the largest timbers;
when the indigenous forests of Spain and other European forests were
depleted, some hard woods were imported from the Baltic area.
> How straight? (We don't know much about the forests of the 16th and
> 17th >
> century):
> How curved? Were there regular arcs? (suggesting sophisticated forest
> management techniques)
Yes, for details, please see above reference materials. If you do not have
access, the library of congress in the U.S. will loan them to U.S. Citizens
who may? loan them to you. There may even be an inter-library loan program
between our countries, you would have to check on that at your end. Again,
no charge
> How was it built? There are so many things we don't know about the
> construction sequence!
We believe after our research that all the ships we have worked on were
built skeleton first and then 3 1/4" Oak hull planking and strakes. Typical
built joint construction with hang knees.
> How long was the keel? How was it assembled?
Atocha 86' keel, 32' breadth, 16' hold depth, 550 tons, our research
indicates the builders on the number of spikes at each joint were not what
they were supposed to be. ie, the builder used 3 spikes where he should have
used four according to the plans. He may have been short on spikes or
simply cutting corners to save $?
Margarita 550 tons, about the same as the Atocha
San Martin 36' keel and 18'breadth (This is all we found, our hypothesis
based on evidence is that it was probably twice this before the toredo worms
and constant natural area turbidity tore half of it up) The San Martin is
believed to be a 300 ton vessel, the keel timbers were 10" thick Oak
All of the above ships as well as the 1715 ships had iron spikes, while the
two later period wrecks we work, 1810 and 1824 are put together with copper
spikes. The later wrecks also carried copper sheeting.
Also, there was very thin lead sheeting on some portions of the San Martin
and Margarita hulls. Some of the sheeting had imprints like canvas on them.
As you most likely know, this was to provide shipworm protection. On the
San Martin, there were also some lead patches attached with iron tacks. The
Atocha had no sheeting on the hull, but some was found among the cargo.
> If you have six hours, I can give you lists of things we don't know.
I have only the rest of my life.....but you could look allot of this up in
our publications.
> How was the space divided?
> How was the space occupied?
Since we work in turbid hurricane prone areas with warm, shallow water
suitable for toredo worm and storm deterioration, this is a difficult one
to answere. (As you may know, the Atocha was hit by a 2nd hurricane and the
scatter patter between the primary cultural deposit located in 1985 and the
first 9 bronze cannon is about 7 miles.) From researching the Atocha's
shipwrights contracts however we do know there was a Captains Cabin and
navigators cabin was in the stern upper deck and cargo hold for the wealthy
(and most likely the Church) in the lower Stern area. The stern was also
usually used to store gunpowder and fuses. The center and forward hull
section was designed for the armory of guns,swords, and projectiles (ie
musket balls, cannon balls, canister shot, etc. )We also know from
excavation the bulk of the silver, coinage, copper, and passenger cargo
(gifts?, silver plates and tableware, spices, and dyes) were in the bilges
hold with the ballast stones. We believe the galley and crewsquarters were
in the upper bow and brig in the lower bow. Center lower decks and gundecks
held cannon.
It is obvious by finds that armaments were kept together, navigational tools
were kept together, ammunition were kept together, cooking utensils were
kept together, etc....because they are found in groups. Again, I stress
this is a 7-10 mile scatter pattern. The coin chests and silver bars and
copper ingot of the Atocha were among the ballast, presumably from the main
bilge of the hold. There was NO structure anywhere except the primary
cultural deposit area and thousands of artifacts are found on a nearly 10
mile scatter area. Much contraband has been found scattered among all of
the above, for example the pilots chest (full of navigational tools) had a
stash of coins in it, a clump of iron nails in the shape of a small bag, the
bag gone by deterioration, most likely belonging to a carpenter contained 5
gold coins in the middle, and contraband gold bars without tax stamps found
with emerald jewelry.
> Where was the ballast placed?
In the bilge of the hold, the base ballast were Larger stones with lime and
sand gravel and there were smaller stones on top.
> And the water? How was it stored?
Most likely in the hundreds of ceramic olive jars (Tupperware of the 15 &
16th centuries) and apparently in the main hull with the ballast. Although,
we have found ceramic remains the entire 10 mile length of the scatter. We
believe the majority of the jars are new world construction, have even
lifted a few fingerprints from them. We think they were also used for food
storage in addition to water. One of the jars on the 1715 Fleet was found
intact with cork still in it and was filled with Cinchona bark, a bark used
for medicinal purposes. It was donated to the State of Florida.
> Where was the oven? In the galley
> How many anchors did it carry? What weights?
The Atocha and Margarita each supposedly had 6 anchors on board. Two 11
foot Bowers, one for port and one for starboard; One Kedge anchor (We found
the Margarita Kedge with a 1618 date on it, 5 1/2 feet long) and one Sheet
anchor, for emergencies, usually stored in the hold. (We found a 13'4"
Sheet anchor on the Atocha site.) The anchors are similar to those used in
Columbus' and Napoleonic eras. I don't recall the weights but I am sure they
are in the references cited above.
> These were amazing machines, of which we know next to nothing. And I
> think that it is a pity that treasure hunters are destroying them for
> short term profit.
Everyone is entitled to their opinions!
Have a great day!)
Taffi Fisher Abt, President
Mel Fisher Center, Inc.
