This is Why You Should Be Cautious About Throwing Stuff Away!!

[BuckleBoy]

Hello All,

I have always saved everything I've dug that might be something, or pieces that might be something if I could find enough pieces to ID. Well, over the years I've ID'ed a lot of finds that I dug a long time ago. Tonight I was sitting reading through the Crouch book on CW artifacts (Quindy left me a copy as a gift when he and Dman came here to hunt with us!). All of a sudden I saw something on the page that I recognized!

Back in 1995 or 96 I was digging an old resort in West Virginia that dated back to the 1820s and had some Yankee CW history. I was the first to dig the resort--it had never been hunted!--and the finds were incredible...but that's a story for another post. Anyhow, I dug lots of dropped minieballs and one carved bullet that day, plus some other great old relics, and two large cents, one of which was a nice Classic Head. Right in the middle of the CW dropped bullets I dug what I thought was a ladies' brooch from the 1920s. Looking at the style of pin back, which I thought was one of those types with the turning, "locking" mechanism I dismissed the find, tossed it in the box with some of the bullets and forgot about it for 12 years.

Well, when I saw the page in Crouch's book that deals with Lieutenant and Major insignia, I remembered the find, pulled it out of the box, and put it beside the photo in the book. Below the photo it says "Major's Oak Leaves."



So, are there any experts out there that can tell me if this find is CW era or much later? Here are some close-up photos of the pin back. (it was originally an iron pin, judging from the rust):









I cleaned the find with Aluminum Jelly and it looks even better...but what era is it from?

Before Aluminum Jelly:


After Aluminum Jelly:




Best Wishes,

Buckles

 

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[John Boy]

Nice save.you got a love when all the pieces come together and the mystery is solved.congrats BUCKLES..

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Almost looks like an exact match indeed, just one or two small details that don't match up i.e. (guess we will call them branches) the lower branch on the artifact kinda droops down in away that the photo in #3 doesn't the photo in #3 the bottom branch looks to be more straighter and not droopy (hopefully you get what i'm saying) besides that it matches up perfect, too bad there is no engraving on the back, and boy she cleaned up perfect. Almost looks 20th century but it could be the same artifact in the Crouch's book.. Rare find indeed if it is, best of luck.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

BuckleBoy
That`s a great story...and a very nice find "Major`s Oak Leaves" very cool...love that kind of research when you just fall into it lol.
Gary

 

[BuckleBoy]

My gut feeling is still 20th century construction, but thought I would post it up and ask. I feel certain that the ID is correct on what it is...but not so sure on what time frame it's from.

Best Wishes,

Buck

 

[VOL1266-X]

Will, it sure looks close to # 6 on page 95 of the Phillips CW relic book. VERY cool find. WTG, Q.

 

[genlee]

Buckleboy that is a circa 1940's and later Major's Oak Leaf. And yes they look similar to the Civil War period Oak Leaf but if you were to compare them side by side you would be able to tell the difference real quick.

It is a great find and if you look up current US military regs on Officer rank insignia you will find it there. Better yet go to an Army Surplus store close to you and look.

The back gave it away as to being in the 1940's As today they have stick pin style attachments. In the 40's they had the pin clasp's, which were also used during the Civil War period, but even they looked different as far as construction goes.

I hope this helps

John

 

[Bill D. (VA)]

You're absolutely right Buck. I'm very careful nowadays and go through the stuff in the trash section of my pouch very carefully before disposal. And every once in a while I'll find something good in there. I remember many years ago when I was first into hunting old sites I would keep a large box of "junk" that I didn't think contained any nice finds, but yet too good to throw away. One day my hunting partner was looking through the box and found a greenish copper disk with what looked like a cross on one side. We cleaned it up better and it ended up being my 1st Virginia halfpenny. Talk about being embarrassed! But I was a relic green horn back then so I'll forgive myself.

 

[treasurehound]

I save almost everything that I find. Especially if I don't know what it is. The only thing that I throw away is actual junk such as pull tabs, nails, etc. I wonder how many relic hunters threw away artillery fuses before they realized what they had. I too have gone back thru my pile of junk and found many pieces that were actually good. Very good thing to do on a rainy day.

 

[got2dig]

Nice save BB, I to save all my finds as most of you know from my junk post. lol It's hard to just toss them and most of the time I move them and find something. I have a brass dump and was going thought it just a week or so back, I had two pieces of brass that looked like they where one thing. just put them on the (what is it) forum and in no time I had a powder flask. Six years back I looking in the brass and had some pieces that I had put backand on one of the days I didn't hunt I was trying to put them together and well now I have the bell and stem of a bugle it is in pieces but looking at it you know what it is. Keep your junk it may not be junk. Good thread BB. Now I'am going digging. HH

 

[Davers]

I agree with you and the others the leaf is similar but not an exact match to the one in MR . Crouch's book ."but you never know"

 

[chkn]

It's a beautiful piece in either case. It would be pretty tough to just throw out!!!

 

[HISPAN]

awesome find ...congrats !

 

[Valley Ranger]

Very nice! Great save! Yeah, you gotta be careful. I almost through away a colonial trade weight that dates to the mid to late 1700's. It laid in my trunk all summer caked with mud. I thought it was something off a tractor or piece of machinery until I noticed the hallmark!

 

[JerV3]

That is a nice relic man. I would say 1800s for sure. You got some really nice stuff. I know you spend alot of time and money doing this. Just the gas alone anymore is killer. That aluminum jelly works great. I gotta get me some of that stuff.

HH Jer

 

[dig kzoo]

I have the same that was my great grandfathers, WWI

 

[Tnmountains]

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/my-best-finds/332429-these-some-my-best-finds.html

Sorta close.. But no cigar.

 

[webatch]

Cool find on the oak leaf. Not to confuse the situation but a major and Lt. Colonel are the same symbol with different coloring.

Silver color is Lieutenant Colonel, gold color is major which seems backward to me.

Army Ranks on Symbols & Insignias of the United States Army

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

BuckleBoy sent me a PM, asking me to comment on the time-frame of his gilted US Army Major's rank insignia.

Having now done micro-examination of enlarged photos of its back, paying particular attention to the pin-clasp's EXACT form, I conclude that Genlee is correct, its time-period is 1920s into the 1940s. (By the end of the 1940s, pin-clasps had been superceded by "clutch-pins" on American military insignia.)

Here's the evidence that BuckleBoy's oak-leaf insignia does not date back to the 1800s. Notice that the pin's hinge-mount AND the C-shaped clasp for the pin are flanked by two flat flanges. That arrangement seems to match the 1920s-and-later forms shown in the scan (posted below) -- which was originally posted here at TreasureNet by Breezie in the What-Is-it forum to help us diggers "date" various forms of pin-clasps.

 

[hamiddetecting]

Nice dig