this forum gets most views and i need answers please look at this

[gtfm2345]

OK I was in the mwoods today and got a 71 on tek at 5 inches the first piece was top to coin purse soon excited!!! Dropped the pro pointer and she hummed again pulled out 1881 Indian and this ? It is a large planchette with a clear inverted shield nickel image both front and back but it is mirrored don't know need help

 

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[Nick A]

Looks like someone squished a piece of lead between two shield nickels. Possibly a very amateurish attempt to make a "fake" nickel. Definitely old, definitely cool, probably not worth much.

 

[gtfm2345]

I don't think they would have had the pressure to pull that off back then remember I was found in same hole as 1881 penny

 

[Helix]

There are some very smart people down in the " what is it" fourm, possibly ask them.

 

[hbeaton]

I think Nick is onto something with his answer. My thought was taking the two nickels and somehow "wrapping" a piece of lead around the nickels as part of the counterfeiting element. It's also possible that a real obverse and reverse of a shield nickel was "smashed" into what was then a soft metal (whatever the metal is im not sure) leaving the two impressions behind. That would deviate form the idea that there are one or two nickels stuck together. Just thought i'd have an alternate theory.

But in response to "not having the pressure" to do such a thing...I had a couple thoughts. First, let's run with the fact this was found in the same hole as the 1881 IH and further assume that it was recently dropped so the coin and planchette device were dropped in the 1880s. Counterfeiting coin technology has been around since the technology to make the coins right? Well specifically with 5 cent coins in the 1880s (before and after) counterfeiting was a huge problem, when Charles Barber made the Liberty Head Nickel, people didn't even realize it was a new 5 cent piece so he had to make the "V" nickle to make sure people knew what they had. Furthermore, people took the liberty head versions and dipped them in gold fill, etc., to pass of as $5 gold pieces...clever. Furthermore, shield nickels with or without rays and the coins that has Cents written on them vs No Cents coins were also highly counterfeited.

I include a New York Times article from 1884 that talked expressly about counterfeiting coins and particularly the 5 cent pieces (and shield nickels are mentioned)

WITHOUT THE RIGHT RING - PICKING OUT COUNTERFEITS IN AMERICAN COINS. THE IMITATIONS OF GOLD, SIVER, AND OTHER PIECES AND HOW THEY ARE MADE AND DETECTED. - View Article - NYTimes.com

 

[Helix]

I think Nick is onto something with his answer. My thought was taking the two nickels and somehow "wrapping" a piece of lead around the nickels as part of the counterfeiting element.

But in response to "not having the pressure" to do such a thing...I had a couple thoughts. First, let's run with the fact this was found in the same hole as the 1881 IH and further assume that it was recently dropped so the coin and planchette device were dropped in the 1880s. Counterfeiting coin technology has been around since the technology to make the coins right? Well specifically with 5 cent coins in the 1880s (before and after) counterfeiting was a huge problem, when Charles Barber made the Liberty Head Nickel, people didn't even realize it was a new 5 cent piece so he had to make the "V" nickle to make sure people knew what they had. Furthermore, people took the liberty head versions and dipped them in gold fill, etc., to pass of as $5 gold pieces...clever. Furthermore, shield nickels with or without rays and the coins that has Cents written on them vs No Cents coins were also highly counterfeited.

I include a New York Times article from 1884 that talked expressly about counterfeiting coins and particularly the 5 cent pieces (and shield nickels are mentioned)

WITHOUT THE RIGHT RING - PICKING OUT COUNTERFEITS IN AMERICAN COINS. THE IMITATIONS OF GOLD, SIVER, AND OTHER PIECES AND HOW THEY ARE MADE AND DETECTED. - View Article - NYTimes.com

Now now that you mention it I do see a shield in third picture and stars in first two. Interesting

 

[Peter Iredale]

If you look closer it looks like a shield nickel with a border to it

 

[Carl995]

OK I was in the mwoods today and got a 71 on tek at 5 inches the first piece was top to coin purse soon excited!!! Dropped the pro pointer and she hummed again pulled out 1881 Indian and this ? It is a large planchette with a clear inverted shield nickel image both front and back but it is mirrored don't know need helpView attachment 1204688View attachment 1204689View attachment 1204690View attachment 1204692View attachment 1204693

Maybe a 2 piece mold, i see the possible pour hole.

 

[Nick A]

I don't think they would have had the pressure to pull that off back then remember I was found in same hole as 1881 penny

Huh? Not sure why you think they didn't have pressure in the late 1800s? One could make something like this with a simple vise or screw press, or even just with one good solid hit with a sledgehammer. As long as the "planchet" metal is softer than the nickel, it will take an impression. Then file down the edges to make it the same size as a nickel, and it would have just been passable as a nickel to someone not paying really close attention.

 

[gtfm2345]

im not sure its lead wouldn't it have turned white ? all other bullets from this area are white

 

[bigfoot1]

could be babbit metal.interesting find and I would also guess part of a counterfeit attempt.was common.

 

[Ant]

I'm with the counterfeit crew:

The Numismatic Bibliomania Society Esylum: Volume 15, Number 10, March 4, 2012

Counterfeits were generally produced by one of two methods. The first was the "cast counterfeit" method, which was basically making a mold of a genuine coin from plaster of Paris, clay and sometimes copper then using molten metal (lead, pot metal etc) to produce a "coin" from that mold. Here is an example of a more sophisticated mold made of copper, along with a fake 1861 quarter that would have been produced from it. Notice the upper loop of the 8 in the date is filled; this is caused by trapped air bubbles in the mold transfer process. These random little "blobs" are telltale signs of a cast coin.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I don't think they would have had the pressure to pull that off back then remember I was found in same hole as 1881 penny

Believe me, they had about as much ability to apply pressure as we do now. In 1876 battleships mounted 17 inch (bore) guns. We'd be hard-pressed to make these NOW.



Railroads, foundries, hydraulic trip-hammers, machine shops - all these were plentiful in the 1870's.



Here's a bench vice from 1880. That's all you'd need.

 

[ARC]

I don't think they would have had the pressure to pull that off back then remember I was found in same hole as 1881 penny

Pressure ?

One whack with a hammer is "enough pressure"...
You are talking lead...
Not stainless steel.

 

[Breezie]

I agree with the group in that it's a counterfeit attempt.


Cool find
Breezie

 

[cw0909]

im with the counterfeit idea, and may have been done like this


more on that
Ancient Roman Coin Molds (Moulds)

 

[gtfm2345]

yeah ok with the pressure I was referring to a homebody person not a factory or machine and it is not lead seems to be a alloy or pot metal

 

[ARC]

Hmmm...
Homebody people... ?

People who have bodies that look like a home ?
OR...
People who have homes that look like a body ?
OR...
Are you saying like... ho me body ? homely body ?

Can they not too "apply pressure" to something ?
At home while not working in the factory...
I mean sheesh... no one would have fooled around at the factory while eating their bologna sandwhich and flipping their coin with a lit cigarette and a beer running the "pressure applier"...

"Hey Ralph... hold my sandwhich and beer and watch me mash this nickel in the ole pressure applier".

:P

 

[gollum]

It is 100% a stamping of a Shield Nickel. Look carefully in pic#4. In the middle of the piece, you can easily see the bottom section of the "5".

Mike