Thinking Outside The (Mail) Box

[ScubaFinder]

I started this thread because myself and a few others have hijacked some other threads talking about different options for getting under the overburden. I personally believe there is plenty of ocean bottom for all of us, and I am not afraid to discuss most of my ideas openly here amongst fellow treasure hunters. If you want to build my idea and get it in the water before me, at least excercise a little common courtesy to tell me if it worked or not

If we can get rid of some of the unnessecary secrecy, we might come up with something brilliant. I find it funny that the old hands at this are always willing to share their experience and thoughts on an idea...but us silly newbies (myself included) think we are going to rule the oceans with our end-all, best ever idea I'm kidding, mostly making fun of my own thoughts. So how about some of us engineering, outside the box kinda thinkers (both new and experienced alike) put our heads together here and see what we can come up with.

I for one can engineer and fabricate just about anything. I cannot however afford a large boat with all the toys. I'm looking at way to make a portable underwater hole-blower that I can use while diving from shore (working within my means if you will).

I have the power system and blower all worked out, and a simple structure to mount it on. Picture a large tripod, with big flat feet resting on the sand. In the center, there is a sliding pole that allows the blower to descend about 10 feet undernerath the legs. The prop blast from the blower actually holds the propeller a few inches above the sand, and lets it descend under it's own weight as it blows the hole deeper. A small lift bag on top of the tripod for repositioning, and an expensive rechargeable battery that can give the electric blower about 2 hours of run time. If I could blow 2 holes and search them in one dive, I'd be a happy man.

I'll add more details in a later post, but if you're thinking outside the box, and don't have all the answers you need, post the basics of your idea here, and see what all of us together can come up with. I promise there will be plenty of unexplored ocean bottom left when you get ready to use your brain child.

Who else has a crazy idea that isn't in production, and isn't afraid to share a few details, or at least the desired result they are after?

Jason

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIOI GO GO GO Jason. More.

Tropical Tramp

 

[SEAHUNTER]

SCUBASEEKER
WE CAN BUILD IT AND TEST IT WHEN YOU COME TO FLORIDA. I AM WILLING TO DO IT. I MAY WANT TO PUT IT ON STEROIDS THOUGH.
SEAHUNTER

 

[rgecy]

I read about a handheld propwash that was counter balanced so a diver didn't have to brace himself on the bottom while using it. Basically it was a 12" pipe with two counter rotating props driven by hydrolics or possibly air. The water flowed in from the middle and was pushed out both ends so it would be easy to hold.

I think it was in one of Bob Marx books!

Robert in SC

 

[ScubaFinder]

Cap. Z, glad I could help you There are bigger ones of both items we spoke of, an internet search would turn them up easily, or I can send you links if you decide to "super-size" it

SeaHunter - I'm IN, and I like steroids...not for myelf personally, but they belong on ALL heavy equipment

Robert - Hadn't thought about a handheld using counterbalance...thanks. I already knew that I needed to get Marx's books, but your thoughts have re-confirmed that! Let's see...air powered huh? That could be done fairly easily....I wonder how long a full scuba tank could run it. I still like the rechargable batteries, but mostly just because that is what I know.

Eric, interesting thought, and yeah, we will no doubt run into each other at some point soon. I was considering making my unit a dredge instead of blower at one point...how about pumping the water and sand up, filtering it through a screen above the surface, and then plunging it through that generator on it's way back into the ocean This would require a lot more power to accomplish, and is a little outside what I'm ready to build right now, but it would make back some of it's power.

I had another idea this evening too, how about putting big tires on the tripod, adding an angle to the blower, so that it also propels itself and cuts a straight swath along the bottom. You'd have to trade in the tripod for a four-legged device, but it might work. My main concern with the stationary unit was that as the propeller decended into the hole, it could get caved in on. This led me to loose the decending propeller and opt for more power. These batteries just keep getting more expensive the more I think about it though. Will have to consider some alternate power sources like the air powered unit.

Despite the obvious challenges of making this work right the first time, are there any laws that would prevent it's use? Does anyone else see any major flaws that would prevent it from working for a single, boatless diver?

Jason

 

[Cablava]

In the commercial world we use hydrojets to clean off things, dig holes remove marine growth etc. This is a high pressure device often exceeding 14,000 PSI, the gun has a retro jet to counter the jet force. Now these things are big and expensive.

But we have used 2" fire pumps to make a larger jet and blow holes in mud etc.

So a cheap way would be to use a small petrol or diesel powered water pump and make small blaster for digging holes in the sand.

2" pump
Lengths of fire hose required
Intake hose
Custom welded gun with a trigger

Primitive but would work, you need to work out how to have the water divert when you let go of the trigger and the pressure backs up in the hose. But you guys sound capable of that.

It always pays to have a heavy sinker to anchor the main hose so you can just work with a short tail, otherwise you will get tired very easily and possibly take an unwanted tour of the sea bed.

 

[wreckdiver1715]

Re-inventing the wheel! Consider an alternative such as an air lift. It's simple, cheap and easy to build using parts available from The Home Depot. While it does not blow 20 foot diameter holes in the bottom, it can remove lots of sand in a hurry.

Tom

 

[riobravo]

hi again Jason,
my thoughts are that moving over burden, via mailbox's, simple dredge, etc. is done fairly efficient and in every case must be monitored by multiple dives with electronics.
the lacking area in exploration and working a site is affordable underwater positioning and mapping equipment. any thoughts?

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Tom, I think the same way. I built dozens of air lifts from PVC. It's cheap and easy. Here is a picture of a 2" air lift that plugs right in to your power inflator hose. The tank in back is a 130cu. ft. steel tank.

 

[Bongo]

new guy here trying to get down the basics. I've enjoyed following all of these threads and have great interest in learning about affordable technology for clearing and search. How long with this system Salvor6 before you run through a 130 lb tank? Could you hook up a hookah to beef it up?


Thanks guys 8)

Bongo

 

[ScubaFinder]

OK, I'm liking the airlift, my saltwater aquarium filtration use the same principle...has anyone tried to use the air you exhale to power it? I can see this being a great tool for cleaning up an existing hole and seaching the area around it, but not for making a decent sized hole (correct me if I'm wrong, I AM still very green to all of this). My core goal is simply to blow a large hole, without a boat. A lofty goal I know, but certainly possible. I'm looking for something I can swim out, setup, and start. Then I can swim back to shore, grab some lunch or something, and come back later with dive gear and have decent hole to search.

I'm thinking about sites like SeaHunter works, he's 100 yards off shore in 20 feet of water. He's got a nice boat, and I'm looking forward to diving from it...but couldn't a guy sublease a site like this and work it effectively without owning a boat. That's the core of what I'm trying to decide.

Thanks for all of the input...I'm definitely going to Home Depot tonight I'd use the low pressure inflator hose from a second tank. but can anyone see a major problem with trying to reclaim exhaled air as a boost for the airlift?

Jason

 

[Cablava]

Horses for courses

 

[Salvor6]

The 130 tank lasts about 45 min at 20' with the air lift going. The problem with exhaled air is that the pressure is too low. A hookah would let you stay down longer but then you are tethered to a boat. When we use a hookah, we have a separate line with a much larger air lift.

 

[ericwt]

ScubaSeeker: in answer to you question.

...but couldn't a guy sublease a site like this and work it effectively without owning a boat. That's the core of what I'm trying to decide.

Short answer NO.

It has to do with what the state of Florida requires from the groups that lease water areas.

Maybe someone with the requirements of contracts can fill you in better here. I do not have the information handy.

ericwt

 

[FISHEYE]

small portable blowers are easy to make.heres 1 that im currently building it consists of:1 vertical shaft 8-18 HP lawnmover engine 2 or 4 stroke.mounted on a flat metal plate,can be mounted on a inner tube or bolted to the deck of a pontoon boat,.a fleible or dampening shaft coupler,a extended shaft,a small outboard engine 8-10 inch prop,PVC or metal tubing 1-2 inches larger then the prop used.with slots for water intake or open at the top mounted to the flat engine plate with brackets or welded,welded would be better then the water slots could be used.also extensions or a flex pipecould be added for use in deeper water.im sure each one of you here has a old lawnmower in your yard.even a new one that the wife bought you for xmas,just tell her someone stole it when it turns up missing.have fun with your new project.

 

[rgecy]

im sure each one of you here has a old lawnmower in your yard.

Hmmmm! Insert redneck joke here!

Robert in SC

 

[mad4wrecks]

Cornelius has some good advice with the hooka rig as did Tom and Pete with their airlift ideas.

Jason wrote: had another idea this evening too, how about putting big tires on the tripod, adding an angle to the blower, so that it also propels itself and cuts a straight swath along the bottom. You'd have to trade in the tripod for a four-legged device, but it might work.

Jason also wrote: I cannot however afford a large boat with all the toys. I'm looking at way to make a portable underwater hole-blower that I can use while diving from shore (working within my means if you will).

Shore dives are not particularly easy along the Treasure Coast. It is a high energy environment. Rarely will you be going out through calm waters. And usually there is a decent drop off as you step off (and onto) the beach. At the Cabin wreck, just south of Sebastian Inlet, the first reef actually starts right at the waters edge and is visible at low tide (well, this was before they dumped a few thousand tons of sand on the beach and covered it!)I know this. I have lost more equipment over the years (and a few embarrasing falls) while entering and exiting the water during a beach dive. Think full dive gear, wet suit, metal detector, hammer (for chipping out artifacts), dive flag, maybe a scooter....it can be quite a burden. I know it was much easier to do when I was 30!

 

[ScubaFinder]

Hehe, you guys have resurrected an old thread. I basically decided on a home-made hookah-powered air dredge...with attachments Tom, I busted my arse this weekend getting out of the lake in full gear...so I hear you. Not exactly a "high energy" environment, but slimy moss is very slick. I've switched my thinking to buying a boat, or partnering up with someone who has one when I get out there permanently.

I'm building a wire mesh "box" out of 1/4" screen for the top of the dredge. My hope is that sand will all fall through, but coral skeleton, emeralds, gold coins, etc. will stay in the box. It's pretty simplistic but it should work, I'll post pics when I get mine done.

Jason

 

[stevemc]

Jason, I know this is months old, but still timely. How about a jet suction dredge? You have a water pump, can be bought at Harbor Freight for less than $300, have a short section of hard suction hose with screen end, so nothing gets sucked up, and a length of 1 1/2" used fire hose-I can get that when it doesnt pass tests. Then get a jet fitting from Keene engineering and use PVC for the rest. Go to Keene Eng to see how it works. It uses a water jet that shoots in a U and into the pipe, and out back, not out the tip, it causes a suction. You just cant use too big of a pipe, on a $300 pump. Maybe 4" max. 3" would be good. Its kind of like a vacuum cleaner underwater. Steve.

 

[ScubaDude]

Steve, its funny you bring that up I've been trying to figure out a vendor for that one today. The build one or buy one question Thanks for the Keene tip. I'm trying to justify buying a nice Miller welder I've been wanting/needing for a year now, my little POS mig has too many limitations.