The Sum of all Fears

Sir Gala Clad

Bronze Member
Jul 9, 2012
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Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
For most shallow water hunters their greatest fear is prim evil: Such as being munched on by a shark, barbed by a sting ray/ cone, stung by a jelly fish such as the man of war, or the more dangerous box jellyfish. A more likely and greater danger is strong current(s) which may suck you away, a mistimed wave pounding you senseless, or stepping into a deep hole while wearing waders all of which may result in lost equipment or your untimely demise.

The late Norman Garnush, webmaster of the GoldenOlde, was clearly aware and concerned about a far more dangerous predator: Man (he, she,?) - To be politically correct.
Even though he would fearlessly metal detect chest deep in the shark infested Gulf of Mexico on full and no Moon nights when the tides were low, His concern was about being robbed/assaulted at the parking lot or on the Beach. He owned a motor home rather than a house as he was aware that the front door of his castle would be padlocked and seized (sigh), if he became ill or required care.
I don’t know about you but I neither consider Medicare a benefit nor a right. I would like to know why senior citizens who carry full health coverage are denied the health benefits they pay for because they are eligible for Medicare?
Medicare surely did not benefit me, nor did it benefit the hospital which saved my life when my foot became infected. However, it definitely benefitted the insurance carriers as they again got out of paying less than they should.
For me the sum of all fears from nature other than sickness is small less than one percent. Compare to the ninety nine percent plus danger imposed by fellow man.

I truly believe that the greatest danger is confiscation by an overzealous care taker, park ranger, police officer, archeologist, you name it. From experience I know that equipment once seized will likely never be returned, and that the legal cost and effort to get the equipment back far exceed its purchase cost.

I have no fear of being arrested; in fact I prefer it as it guarantees my rights since I will have to be provided with legal representation and my medical care would not be denied. Further, the news media can be contacted the case and published as widely as possible as a form of passive resistance. Of course this assumes that I am within my rights and have not done anything illegal or obviously stupid as those taking away our rights which were slowly being taken away prior to 911 and has accelerated exponentially since then under the justification that it is necessary for us to sacrifice our way of live and freedom so that we can be better protected.
As my office equipment was improperly seized while I was out grocery shopping and has yet to be returned, I simply do not understand how anyone can enjoy metal detecting if they fear confrontation and standing up for their rights.
I took up shallow water treasure hunting to regain my health which was needlessly destroyed as a result of the lack of compassion and cooperation by the State of Hawaii.

Details previously posted in which has been moved from my earlier post on my first three ring day as it is more appropriate in this thread:
{Sorry, I am not able to post pictures, earlier my home office was broken into and office equipment stolen. Found out later from a next door neighbor that it was the police. They left no warrant nor inventory of items taken and to this date have refused to provide copies of the warrant, inventory of items taken and have not returned the equipment even thought the person arrested was convicted long ago. They needlessly destroyed my business by taking my computer, archived software and printer. I repeat they broke into my office on the possibility that the person they were after might have broken into my office, I repeat might of broken into my office to commit a computer crime.

This destroyed my business as I had developed the software over the years to provide the edge I needed to earn supplemental income as well as sensitive rental and client information. All I asked was for a copy of the software so that I could remain in business, which was refused, stating they did not have that capability.

It also almost cost me my life and ruined my health, as my foot was cut while cleaning up the mess and became infected.

This is the Thank You I got for serving having spent my entire life in service to country, with honorary discharges from the US Navy enlisted, USAF Reserve Major, and General Manager 13 (GM13) with sustained superior service achievement award.

Oh by the way, I would not of required supplemental income if I received the retirement which I was entitled to, but received less as a result of deliberate misinformation and lies on survivor benefits. So you might say that the abuse of power by the state of Hawaii was the final nail in the coffin.

As a result of the above actions I have lost most of what I have worked my entire life for and my children have lost their heritage, and individuals who depended upon me for shelter lost their place to stay through no fault of their own.
I am writing this as warning to all what happened to me, can happen to you. “Rights you have no Stinken Rights" (Humphrey Bogart in High Sierra).}
 

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TL&DR... Please sum up for us...

I am a first generation American third generation military whose parents fled Europe to escape from an oppressive government.
As a patriot, I would gladly sacrifice my life in defense this country. Over less than a decade my feelings have changed from love of country to one of deep concern and more recently to one of fear. If you cannot see the unraveling of our current society there is no reason to read further as the information I have provided most likely does not affect you.

My objective is to inform those may be / are affected so that they do not fall in the same pitfall(s). I neither desire nor intend to persuade anyone.
As a scientist, and a military officer I cannot in good conscience remain silent when a government treats it’s veterans who protect it and senior citizens who made it once great so badly.

Europe is now a better and safer place thanks to the sacrifices made by our fighting men and women and our allies. In my opinion, this is no longer true for the United States which since 911 has become more like a police state stripping away freedom after freedom under the justification that it is necessary to protect us from terrorism.
 

And this belongs in Beach and Shallow water hunting because?...
 

sir gala clad, I too am having trouble trying to figure out "your point". Something to do with fears of "being arrested" and "equipment confiscated" for metal detecting? If so, let me ask you a question: Can you cite any such incidents of this happening to anyone, for detecting a non-posted regular innocuous beach? I doubt it. Anytime such stories of supposed "confiscations" and "arrests" circulate, it's no doubt someone who couldn't take a warning, or sneaking around an obvious historic monument, or some such exception. I think you're worrying too much.
 

Perhaps what he is trying to convey is that some law enforcement officer one day may come up to you and ask you to hand over any article you found because it does not belong to you. I know for a fact that in some countries that is done and nothing you can do about it. You are allowed to hunt but can not keep anything of value. Locally here some time back a police officer with his hand on his holster asked one of our detector club members to get out of the water, he was not allowed to hunt there. Apparently a hotel owner , friend of the officer thought detecting near his hotel should not be allowed. Small community areas sometimes do what they please. In a beach just south of Clearwater a lady and her friend were arrested for drinking a cup of coffee on the beach. Reason given was they have an open container law.
 

Perhaps what he is trying to convey is that some law enforcement officer one day may come up to you and ask you to hand over any article you found because it does not belong to you. I know for a fact that in some countries that is done and nothing you can do about it. You are allowed to hunt but can not keep anything of value. Locally here some time back a police officer with his hand on his holster asked one of our detector club members to get out of the water, he was not allowed to hunt there. Apparently a hotel owner , friend of the officer thought detecting near his hotel should not be allowed. Small community areas sometimes do what they please. In a beach just south of Clearwater a lady and her friend were arrested for drinking a cup of coffee on the beach. Reason given was they have an open container law.

Les: Thank you (mahalo) for providing clear examples of what I am trying to convey. Part of the confusion is what I am trying to convey is larger than the narrow domain of metal detecting. Simply put we will continue to lose our constitutional rights and freedoms at an accelerating rate unless confiscations are checked. By confiscation I mean the legal and illegal taking of property as well as broken contractual obligations and promises by agencies and services of the US Government.
As a result of the actions of an overzealous police force, I have taken up metal detecting as I now have free time to metal detect. My former rentals are now owned and run by foreigners. I have taken up shallow water treasure hunting to help keep the swelling of my leg down. I still suffer from edema as a result of treatment of a life threatening infection which is the result of my foot being cut while cleaning up the broken glass and debris from the raid.
My credentials were provided to show that this could just as easily happen to you. It does not matter if you are in your home or on the beach (confiscation is confiscation. The really sad part is that no one seems to care anymore.

You got it wrong Tom, I would prefer to be arrested rather than let my equipment be taken as then I would be entitled to an attorney at State expense and be able to resist passively with media attention. I personally know a water hunter who had a pistol pulled on him as the thief wanted his equipment. He hit the guy with his water scoop and notified the police. No police report was filed as the police did not want to fill in the paperwork as it would look bad to tourists.

.
 

sir gala clad,
I agree with you 100%! we are loosing freedoms left and right, little by little. veterans are not treated with the respect and reverence they deserve. too many citizens throw there hands up and say "oh well, you cant fight the system". this thread may get moved to another more appropriate forum but, I do agree with you.
chuck.
 

sir gala clad,
I agree with you 100%! we are loosing freedoms left and right, little by little. veterans are not treated with the respect and reverence they deserve. too many citizens throw there hands up and say "oh well, you cant fight the system". this thread may get moved to another more appropriate forum but, I do agree with you.
chuck.

I have no problem with it being moved to a more appropriate forum.
I put it into the beach and shallow water beach detecting forum as I became a shallow water hunter for the reason(s) stated and truly regret that they had to be said. but that is the way it is. Pretending otherwise and looking the other way only makes it worse. Maybe it should put it under dodo birds as they put their head in the sand when trouble arose and that is why they are extinct. I don't know if this is so, but it is a great analogy, if true and a good analogy if not. A more appropriate place to move it may be under evolution as that as how I evolved from a land owner into a shallow water hunter.
 

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gala clad, where the h*ck do you live, that you're so all-fired worried that you're going to be arrested and confiscated?

I can't think of a single place in the USA (assuming a person is not night-sneaking obvious historic monuments) where such things are some sort of a "routine-occurance". Based on your alarm and fear, it seems as if this fear and potential "lurks around every corner" where you live. So pray tell, where are you hunting which is so frickin crawling with archies and such?
 

I can honestly say, as it pertains to beach and shallow water, that my personal experiences while beach hunting have been just the opposite.....(aside from the occasional teenager)...as just about every beach patrol, DNR, city and county officer, park manager, etc., have been more then supportive of the hobby as long as things don't go overboard to the point that issues are created. Now as for archies, well, they can be a bit touchier bunch....but in all fairness the ones I have met since moving to Florida have even turned me onto some potential areas, so....thus far all of my experiences have been pretty good.
 

I can honestly say, as it pertains to beach and shallow water, that my personal experiences while beach hunting have been just the opposite.....(aside from the occasional teenager)...as just about every beach patrol, DNR, city and county officer, park manager, etc., have been more then supportive of the hobby as long as things don't go overboard to the point that issues are created. Now as for archies, well, they can be a bit touchier bunch....but in all fairness the ones I have met since moving to Florida have even turned me onto some potential areas, so....thus far all of my experiences have been pretty good.

Big Scoop:
The confiscation of equipment from my home office occurred while I was out grocery shopping. It triggered the destruction of my business, way of life, and ruined my health.
I started shallow water hunting after that event as it helps to keep the swelling in my foot (Edema) down.
I never had any problems while detecting nor did I mean to imply that I did.
What I said was that if someone tried to confiscate my equipment while detecting I would not let them have it. As I know from experience that once something is taken it is very difficult to get back. I would prefer to be arrested as it would entitle me to legal representative at county expense.
I have tried to explain that “Faith is the Hunter”
By that I mean, even if you never violate a rule nor do anything wrong, you can still get into big trouble especially in small community areas where the privileged get their way. Les gave some excellent examples of this.
“Beware the Big Fish in a Small Pond - Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
 

gala clad, where the h*ck do you live, that you're so all-fired worried that you're going to be arrested and confiscated?

I can't think of a single place in the USA (assuming a person is not night-sneaking obvious historic monuments) where such things are some sort of a "routine-occurance". Based on your alarm and fear, it seems as if this fear and potential "lurks around every corner" where you live. So pray tell, where are you hunting which is so frickin crawling with archies and such?

“What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate" (Cool Hand Luke, 1967 film), stated by the sherrif
The confiscation happened before I started metal detecting, I have no fear. As stated in my reply to Les I am referring to confiscation in broad terms which include the legal and illegal taking of property as well as braking contractual obligations by the Government and these are indeed routine occurrences. Look at the thousands of seniors who have lost their homes, look at those who lost their life savings, look at the veterans who do not receive the benefits which they have earned. In comparison the confiscation of a metal detector, even the most expensive is chump change.

In contrast the break in to my home office and seizure of equipment while I was grocery shopping is a Black Swan (rare event).
I have identified in my reply to Big Scoop the reason why I not allow my equipment to be taken away, even if it meant arrest.

As I only hunt on beaches at the ocean, I have no problems as it is allowed by law. I do not hunt in the interior and respect what the Hawaiians hold sacred so I never have had any problemsIf you look at my avatar , you will see nothing - I am an enigma . You will see no flag nor a location, All of this will change, as they will be posted, once I have taken the first step of my jouney, like the monk in Sun Tszu.

“What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate’ (Cool Hand Luke, 1967 film). Stated first by Luke
 

gala clad, where the h*ck do you live, that you're so all-fired worried that you're going to be arrested and confiscated?

I can't think of a single place in the USA (assuming a person is not night-sneaking obvious historic monuments) where such things are some sort of a "routine-occurance". Based on your alarm and fear, it seems as if this fear and potential "lurks around every corner" where you live. So pray tell, where are you hunting which is so frickin crawling with archies and such?

Don't worry, soon you'll be able to think of many places in the USA. Life in the USA is about to change drastically, especially if the major populous maintains its current level of education and general mindset of passivity and inanity.
 

Two possibilities.

Your either trolling...

or you literally got raided and had "evidence" removed from your home...ie are being investigated for a crime.

The latter does not add up, imo.

hh an gl -Joe






“What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate" (Cool Hand Luke, 1967 film), stated by the sherrif
The confiscation happened before I started metal detecting, I have no fear. As stated in my reply to Les I am referring to confiscation in broad terms which include the legal and illegal taking of property as well as braking contractual obligations by the Government and these are indeed routine occurrences. Look at the thousands of seniors who have lost their homes, look at those who lost their life savings, look at the veterans who do not receive the benefits which they have earned. In comparison the confiscation of a metal detector, even the most expensive is chump change.

In contrast the break in to my home office and seizure of equipment while I was grocery shopping is a Black Swan (rare event).
I have identified in my reply to Big Scoop the reason why I not allow my equipment to be taken away, even if it meant arrest.

As I only hunt on beaches at the ocean, I have no problems as it is allowed by law. I do not hunt in the interior and respect what the Hawaiians hold sacred so I never have had any problemsIf you look at my avatar , you will see nothing - I am an enigma . You will see no flag nor a location, All of this will change, as they will be posted, once I have taken the first step of my jouney, like the monk in Sun Tszu.

“What we’ve got here is (a) failure to communicate’ (Cool Hand Luke, 1967 film). Stated first by Luke
 

crows can count to three

Joeb: My purpose is to inform not to persuade, so that others are aware and do not fall into the same pitfalls. You are free to think what you want. Have you been watching the news” Dosen’t it seem odd that key technicians and scientists are defecting from the US and seeking asylum in Russia, China, etc. If I remember things correctly, it used to be the other way around.

However, out of curiousity, please tell me what I could be trolling for.
Please tell me why there are only two possibilities? Even a crow can count to three.
I am a veteran, I stated what I stated at risk of offending fellow veterans.
I retired from Civil Service; I stated what I stated at risk of offending other Civil Servants.

Have you read replies to my earlier thread “My first three ring day”? In it I documented three different ways veterans and civil servants can be cheated out of a portion of the benefits which they have earned.
I also identified one way IRS collects more than it should.
If these was done by anyone other than the Government it would be a breach of contract.
And what is sad, really sad is that I have been treated better than most.

The possibility that you did not consider, is that I am the victim of a witch hunt. The police broke into the wrong house and took the equipment. The prosecutor’s office has refused all requests for a copy of the warrant and the office equipment was never returned. As my father fled from Europe to escape from this sort of thing I will leave you with a quote from Adolph Hitler, exchancellor of the ultimate police state and horror to mull over “What luck for rulers that men do not think”.
 

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Please do not insult members by calling or implying they are trolls, it violates our rules...
 

Big Scoop:
The confiscation of equipment from my home office occurred while I was out grocery shopping. It triggered the destruction of my business, way of life, and ruined my health.
I started shallow water hunting after that event as it helps to keep the swelling in my foot (Edema) down.
I never had any problems while detecting nor did I mean to imply that I did.
What I said was that if someone tried to confiscate my equipment while detecting I would not let them have it. As I know from experience that once something is taken it is very difficult to get back. I would prefer to be arrested as it would entitle me to legal representative at county expense.
I have tried to explain that “Faith is the Hunter”
By that I mean, even if you never violate a rule nor do anything wrong, you can still get into big trouble especially in small community areas where the privileged get their way. Les gave some excellent examples of this.
“Beware the Big Fish in a Small Pond - Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”


'if' ? ok I get it look up what the Spartans said when the Persians threatened to invade.
 

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