The same name of a shipwreck - what a mess......

[Bobadilla]

Sometimes there are inquieries here on the Forum about the location of some shipwreck. We generally know the name of sunken ship and then great discussion starts. Now I am talking about really old shipwecks, from 99% Spanish galleons. But have you noticed, dear THing friends, how many Spanish galleons shipwrecked and they were bearing the same name? I will put you one example: Famous Spanish galleon "Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion" which sunk loaded with tons of silver Pieces of Eight on Silver Bank reef in 1641. I was very surprised when I by chance found out that other galleons of the same name "Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion" sank in 1553, 1566, 1590, 1641 (that one is well known), 1648, 1682, 1716, 1732, 1765 and 1783........

Lobo

 

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[Salvor6]

Bobadilla, why is that? Couldn't the Spaniards think of any new names? And I find it strange that they would name a new ship after one that had such bad luck.

 

[Bobadilla]

Hi Salvor 6,

Yes, it is strange, you are right. I do not understand it either. "Concepcion" is just one of the examples. "San Jose" was another one. Look at the recent discussion on the Forum about one of the richest shipwrecks of all times, galleon "San Jose" that sunk in front of Colombian shore. But in 1563 another gold and silver laden "San Jose" sank in the Bay of Montecristi. Now I do not remember which fleet was but I definitely read about the third "San Jose" that sunk in hurricane close to Florida.

Lobo

 

[rgecy]

Lobo,

That would be the 1733 fleet San Jose.

Robert in SC

 

[stevemc]

yep, its about 1/2 mile SouthEast of Indian Key, just South of Islamorada in the Florida Keys, so named after all the dead sailors from the 1733 fleet-Island of the dead=Islamorada. Steve.

 

[old man]

Bobadilla,
There was another rich Spanish shipwreck San Jose that was sunk off the west coast of Panama

 

[Mr. E]

Don't forget the Concepcion that crashed on Saipan in 1638. That wreck was partially salvaged by a group in the late 80's. After that the whole site has been practically ignored. I'm in the process of obtaining permits from the local gov't here to search for more artifacts. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Donovan]

Islamorada means, The purple island. If it was the island of the dead it would be Islamuerto.
The multiple repeated names refered to for Spanish vessels are not names as we think of them today. Rather they were the patron saints of the vessels. Ships could have nicknames given by the crews but the names we see listed in the literature are religious iconography. "Santa Margarita...pray for us. That we may cross the great ocean and see our families once again."
Donovan

 

[old man]

Donavan,
Thanks for that information. I never knew that and as they say ," you're never old to learn".

 

[Donovan]

Another perhaps more well known set of names.... Nina ...Pinta and Santa maria.
Nina was the nickname for the smallest boat, the baby of the fleet. Pinta was a variation on the owners name...Alonzo Pinzon. Both of these vessels had patron saints, I just can't remember them at the moment. One of those senior things.
Santa Maria was the patron saint of the vessel but her nickname was Maria Galande. I was told that this is Spanish slang and means...dirty mary... because under sail, she rolled like a pig.
There is an island in the Carribean named Maria Gallante that Columbus named after his flagship.
These observations are based on long ago memories not research at hand, so they may not be completely accurate but if memory serves.... well they are, at least, fun arcana to drag out at the bar and befuddle your buddies. Of course no Th'er would ever try to mess with the head of his brethren.
Donovan

 

[Bobadilla]

Hello Donovan and the others,

Regarding the Columbus´ ship Maria Gallante, I am not aware of the island of the same name here in the Caribbean but I would like to share wih you some information. According to the latest field research on the north side of Dominican Republic, the flag ship of Christopher Columbus from his second voyage, Mariagalante, was sunk in heavy storm in a bay close to the Spanish original settlement there. It seems that shipwreck was located (at least they believe it) mainly using magnetometer survey by official team of US and British explorers and within next two months the official expedition with the purpose to positively identify this historical wreck will be mounted. If everything goes as planned I will be honored to be with them for couple of days. At least it has been the offer. If it comes, I will keep you all informed.

Speaking about the same name for several different Spanish ships, there is another bright example that I forgot to mention before: Nuestra Señora de la Santisima Concepcion. There were several Spanish galleon with the same name. Just two famous examples of wrecks with this name - one of the "Concepcion" was discovered by Burt Weber in 1976 in Silver Banks, treasure laden fagship of Spanish fleet of 1641. May be that not everybody knows that also famous victim of Francis Drake, Spanish galleon "Cacafuego" which was full of tresures as well and which Sir Drake plundered in the front of Ecuatorian coast had the same name: Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion". Cacafuego was a nickname which meant literally "shitting the fire" and it refferred her abundant cannon artillery.

Best regards to all of you, THers.
Lobo

 

[Donovan]

Marie Gallant is just south of Guadeloupe.

 

[transplant]

maybe who every was building the ship name them in the same manner that ford motor co. does