The Phoenix Button

[Recovering Relics]

This summer I found a Phoenix Button. Phoenix Buttons were made in the early 1820's in Haiti. The button features a phoenix, (a bird) on the front and in haitian says "I rise from my own ashes". My button is number 29. There have been only 10 Phoenix Buttons found east of the Rocky Mountains, mine being the eleventh. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them!

 

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[DixieHunter145]

You are only the eleventh person to ever find one East of the Rockies?? Congrats dude!

 

[Goes4ever]

cool find and welcome to t-net

 

[kuger]

I seen your video,on that,great job young man,great video too!!!You are quite a star out here on the west coast.There are a couple heavy hitters out here on the "P" buttons,one of them is Tom-in-cal on here.Quite a neat history on those buttons!!

 

[tymcmurray]

Congratulations on a GREAT recovery!!!
Looks like some pretty good research too!

Ty

Updating Weekly.

Tips, Techniques, and Tales at:

http://www.justgometaldetecting.com/

 

[Dman]

That's a nice find. Congrats.
Dman

 

[pepperj]

Nice button, when was it found?

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

What a great find! It has been some time since one has been posted here on Tnet. I seem to recall one or two found east of the Mississippi.

Here are a few links to the previous posts:

West Coast:
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=158111.0
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php?topic=144724.0
http://www.treasurenet.com/forum/todaysfinds/archives/19990906/messages/1000058.shtml (an oldie)
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,248170.msg1774793.html#msg1774793
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,59252.msg422916.html#msg422916
and a bunch more from out west...

I think this one was East...
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,265830.0.html

Here is one found in Mass.
http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,78649.0.html

Great find!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Recovering Relics: where do you read that yours is only the 11th found east of the Rockies? There's been more than that found on that side of the USA. But yes, the vast majority are found along the western coast: Columbia River area of OR/WA, and various spots in CA that had mission era influence. Some guys over hear, that specialize in the earlier European contact sites have found lots of those (Go figure, over here, there still wasn't a lot going on by the mid 1820s, so to reach coins and buttons of that era, is a notch of acheivement for us ).

There is unanswered questions as to whether the phoenix buttons found on the east coast started from the west, and migrated eastward, or whether the ship that carried these surplus French military buttons first stopped on the east coast, before coming around to the west coast to their ultimate destination (manufactured goods to be traded for goods along the west coast). Over here, they are deeply connected to being an indian trade item (for trade for furs, food, labor, etc...) yet they also simply show up in areas not exclusively indian sites. (speaking for CA anyhow). In OR/WA they are associated with indian burials, because the indians had ..... for centuries ..... buried their dead with adornments. Once the white man came, this tradition continued, but now, the "adornments" started to be the trade items that were being introduced, of which phoenix buttons must've been traded by the multiples of hundreds, because they were found en-masse on indian burial islands of the Columbia River.

More info can be seen here:

http://www.thetreasuredepot.com/issue3/article4.htm

I think the reason you may have read that yours is so rare on the eastern half of the USA, is that statistics like that are often put forth by archaeologists, based on their own complitations of known examples. And those "known examples" are gleaned from repositories of other known archaeological digs, and what is in museum collections, written works, etc... What the archaeologists don't necessarily know, is the quantities that surface from relic hunters, md'rs, etc....

I have not kept track of the specimens east of the rockies, but from my recollections (even just going by ones posted on forums), it is more than a few dozen. If you want more info on that, I know a fellow who's tracked this distribution for many years, and he'd have an angle on that. Email me at [email protected] and I'll forward that to him. He might like to see the pix of yours, and know what geographic locale yours was found at.

As for value, I've sold some for as little as $25, and others for as much as $300. Depends on the numbers, bird type, style, shape, etc... Obviously a very small niche of collectors, but when a few of them get in a bidding match, they can be fierce

There's a whole lot more that can be said as to why anyone cares about such a curiosity, but it has to do with early finds, early speculations, and their connection to Indian history, French military colonies, and western trading route history (and the mysteries of their distribution elsewhere ads to the allure )

 

[sneaky6]

Congrats on the nice Phoenix button. It is a wonderful find whether it is dug in California or the East Coast, or parts in between. I dug one last summer, and I, too, thought mine was the 11th one dug east of the Rockies. A quick call to Rand Hunley, of Ashland, Va, a long time digger and relic trader assured me that mine was not number 11. He had found a handful of them over his digging career and had seen numbers of them in his relic trading business. He claimed that they often appeared in Confederate camps. Mine was found in eastern Virginia at a location from which both Union and Confederate items have been dug. They are beautiful buttons and I feel lucky to have dug one!

Again, congratulations on your Phoenix button and welcome to T-Net! Can you offer any insight as to other relics found in the area where you dug your button? Thanks!!

Sneaky6

 

[CRUSADER]

This summer I found a Phoenix Button. Phoenix Buttons were made in the early 1820's in Haiti. The button features a phoenix, (a bird) on the front and in haitian says "I rise from my own ashes". My button is number 29. There have been only 10 Phoenix Buttons found east of the Rocky Mountains, mine being the eleventh. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them!

Welcome to Tnet.
When I record rare coins in the UK, we work on the stats that only 1 in 10 finders record, therefore if I record a coin as the 10th one ever, then its likely its 1 of 100 examples in private hands/Museums.
My question is;
Realistically how many do you think are out there, clearly there wasn't just 50 or so made?

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

This summer I found a Phoenix Button. Phoenix Buttons were made in the early 1820's in Haiti. The button features a phoenix, (a bird) on the front and in haitian says "I rise from my own ashes". My button is number 29. There have been only 10 Phoenix Buttons found east of the Rocky Mountains, mine being the eleventh. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them!

Welcome to Tnet.
When I record rare coins in the UK, we work on the stats that only 1 in 10 finders record, therefore if I record a coin as the 10th one ever, then its likely its 1 of 100 examples in private hands/Museums.
My question is;
Realistically how many do you think are out there, clearly there wasn't just 50 or so made?

We take for granted that all treasure hunters post all of their finds on Tnet, but the reality is that most treasure hunters do not subscribe to MD forums. Additionally, the forums have only been around for 11 or 12 years, while people have been digging in fairly large number since the 1970's.

Therefore there are likely to many dug Phoenix buttons sitting in collections with the owner not knowing or caring what significance it even has.

 

[relichunters]

Very cool, I used to have a Pontiac Firebird, with the Phoenix on the hood.

 

[CRUSADER]

This summer I found a Phoenix Button. Phoenix Buttons were made in the early 1820's in Haiti. The button features a phoenix, (a bird) on the front and in haitian says "I rise from my own ashes". My button is number 29. There have been only 10 Phoenix Buttons found east of the Rocky Mountains, mine being the eleventh. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them!

Welcome to Tnet.
When I record rare coins in the UK, we work on the stats that only 1 in 10 finders record, therefore if I record a coin as the 10th one ever, then its likely its 1 of 100 examples in private hands/Museums.
My question is;
Realistically how many do you think are out there, clearly there wasn't just 50 or so made?

We take for granted that all treasure hunters post all of their finds on Tnet, but the reality is that most treasure hunters do not subscribe to MD forums. Additionally, the forums have only been around for 11 or 12 years, while people have been digging in fairly large number since the 1970's.

Therefore there are likely to many dug Phoenix buttons sitting in collections with the owner not knowing or caring what significance it even has.

Thats is also part of my point & a good one made by you, many in the UK do not record rare items because they don't even realise what they are!

 

[Silver Searcher]

This summer I found a Phoenix Button. Phoenix Buttons were made in the early 1820's in Haiti. The button features a phoenix, (a bird) on the front and in haitian says "I rise from my own ashes". My button is number 29. There have been only 10 Phoenix Buttons found east of the Rocky Mountains, mine being the eleventh. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them!

Welcome to Tnet.
When I record rare coins in the UK, we work on the stats that only 1 in 10 finders record, therefore if I record a coin as the 10th one ever, then its likely its 1 of 100 examples in private hands/Museums.
My question is;
Realistically how many do you think are out there, clearly there wasn't just 50 or so made?

We take for granted that all treasure hunters post all of their finds on Tnet, but the reality is that most treasure hunters do not subscribe to MD forums. Additionally, the forums have only been around for 11 or 12 years, while people have been digging in fairly large number since the 1970's.

Therefore there are likely to many dug Phoenix buttons sitting in collections with the owner not knowing or caring what significance it even has.

Thats is also part of my point & a good one made by you, many in the UK do not record rare items because they don't even realise what they are!

And many people in the UK...just don't want to.

SS

 

[kuger]

This summer I found a Phoenix Button. Phoenix Buttons were made in the early 1820's in Haiti. The button features a phoenix, (a bird) on the front and in haitian says "I rise from my own ashes". My button is number 29. There have been only 10 Phoenix Buttons found east of the Rocky Mountains, mine being the eleventh. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them!

Welcome to Tnet.
When I record rare coins in the UK, we work on the stats that only 1 in 10 finders record, therefore if I record a coin as the 10th one ever, then its likely its 1 of 100 examples in private hands/Museums.
My question is;
Realistically how many do you think are out there, clearly there wasn't just 50 or so made?

Nobody can possibly know.........thousands?I know of guys that have a hundred or more.

 

[Iron Patch]

Nice find but I agree it would be almost impossible to know the numbers for button that has a fairly low value. Plus the location really doesn't seem like it adds anything other than added interest.

 

[Deepdiger60]

Great find wtg

 

[SFHunter]

Congrats and welcome to the Phoenix Club.

Mine was found in the town of San Rafael, CA, less then 1 mile from San Rafael Mission. I feel that my button (with #4) was a drop from a local indian as located on old hillside that was a path to the mission. less then 2 inches down and nothing else (old) was found in the area. From reading other posts, whom do I need to talk to to get my button info included in the research?

Also, I thought it was Latin on the buttton, not haitain. But, yes, it does translate to "I rise from my own ashes"

 

[kuger]

Congrats and welcome to the Phoenix Club.

Mine was found in the town of San Rafael, CA, less then 1 mile from San Rafael Mission. I feel that my button (with #4) was a drop from a local indian as located on old hillside that was a path to the mission. less then 2 inches down and nothing else (old) was found in the area. From reading other posts, whom do I need to talk to to get my button info included in the research?

Also, I thought it was Latin on the buttton, not haitain. But, yes, it does translate to "I rise from my own ashes"
[/quote


Tom -in- Cal,ie Tom T,ie Tom in Salinas