The Mining Law: The Extent of Federal Authority Over Public Domain

Thanks for always bringing pertinent
information to the board.:occasion14:
 

Is there a differance between a "valid mining claim" and valid mineral rights? I have been made aware of a situation where the usfs says the claim owner has to pass a mineral exam, the requirements include filing a p.o.o, getting it approved,filing a bond, getting an excavator and trommel in there, ect,, or loose his claim to a wild and scenic river designation.
The referanced paper above seems to indacate a valid mining claim is one that has not been prefected with a mineral exam? Just a regular claim?
 

timberjack said:
Is there a differance between a "valid mining claim" and valid mineral rights? I have been made aware of a situation where the usfs says the claim owner has to pass a mineral exam, the requirements include filing a p.o.o, getting it approved,filing a bond, getting an excavator and trommel in there, ect,, or loose his claim to a wild and scenic river designation.
The referanced paper above seems to indacate a valid mining claim is one that has not been prefected with a mineral exam? Just a regular claim?
Click to expand...

Without reference to the part you read, not sure how to clarify upon that.

Rights to the mineral declared by law, a valid claim is “perfected” upon doing everything required under the law with regard to fulfilling those requirements, distinguishing existing valid mineral rights, whether merely a prospect or creating a muniment of title upon Discovery.

There seems to be a mystery around this “perfection” requirement making things “valid” exploited by the agencies as well as the miners alike, which I really don't have time to wallow through more when we are working on so much more important matters. It isn't that mysterious. Essentially, there are two types of claims, one that of being a prospect, known as pedis possessio, and the other where the entryman has made a discovery of his prospect. And I think it was Bejay, http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/418158-perfecting-mining-claim.html , that gave a concise short list of points you can follow which moves a valid “pedis” claim, exclusive against other entryman, to a valid “perfected” claim, exclusive against even the U.S. itself. I believe you might find consistent sequence authorities in the JMD Mining Rights Document Jefferson Mining District - Mining in Oregon - South West Oregon Mining Association Click Bag O' Law.

We can even see the simple steps to “perfection” in the Granite Case citation, which case "legal experts" misuse to defeat us imposing that we are magically somehow environmental criminals needing permits. But that's not what Granite actually says and acknowledges perfection against the government, and even though Granite Rock was an aggregate producer. Mining Rights Doc:

"9. "[T]he claim holder must prepare locational records and must expend at least $100 of labor on the claim each year, Id. Sec 28. If these requirements are met and the claim is thus perfected, its locator "shall have the exclusive right to possession and enjoyment of all the surface included within the lines of their locations," Id. Sec 26, even as against the United States which nevertheless retains title to the land." Granite Rock Co. v. California Coastal Commission, 1984."

What hasn't been said about “perfecting”, evidenced in the Location Notice, as against the U.S. trust interest, which is really only to stop fraudulent disposal or occupation, is a valuable mineral deposit claim enjoys as valid mineral right, a presumption of Discovery once declared and the BLM, not the Forest Service, would have to have probable cause to believe the land was not mineral in character to begin a successful challenge. If the presumption of Discovery didn't exist, each claimant would have to prove the discovery each and ever time, which would be very burdensome, to say the least. And I'm sure having it their way the Eco-Terrorist non-productive use promoting agencies would love to require that. But there is a presumption that people are innocent until proven guilty, that grantees tell the truth on their declarations, and are not criminals. And I hope so. And together with the obligation to and “voluntary recognition of a preexisting right of possession, constituting a valid claim to its continued use.'" United States v. Rio Grande Dam & Irrig. Co., supra, at 705” you read about, this also imposes upon the BLM the obligation to test &pay for the mineral exam status challenge of the land and work with the claimant to carry that out. The Claimant on the other hand would be wise to make sure a BLM hearing is instituted, in particular if the Forest Service is trying to instigate the challenge, to have the BLM prove the probable cause to believe mineral character does not exist. This also means the Forest Service has no initiating authority with regard to a mineral in character challenge directly though they may be the agency to do the mineral exam at the request of the BLM. Incestuous? If the BLM picks it up, instead of telling the Forest Service to go away unless it can bring a probable caused based complaint from which to work, and if deciding there is probable cause by a proper complaint ordering an exam, the grantee had better get an independent exam done. And if not meeting discovery, the claimant where showing a prospect potential nonetheless has valid mineral rights to continue prospecting.

As to the Forest Service demands, that miner needs to get educated quick and counter the Forest Service's assertions making a WRITTEN administrative record questioning the lawfulness of the Forest Service action. There is too much to cover here that needs to be covered when the Forest Service does this that the miner has to counter. We have countered the Forest Service on their demands, which are in most cases, baseless.

To give you a small list of things that need to be addressed, known by the miner, and made written record of, but not limited too,:

1) The Forest Service must produce title to the land they claim authority to manage which the law declares is in exclusive possession and enjoyment to the Claimant. Remember, the land claimed more valuable for minerals is restored to the public domain, segregated from, and is not forest reserve. That's the law, ignored as it is. There is a mineral reserve underlying the forest reserve.

2) POO's are filed upon the findings of an environmental study which the FS is required to do, not the claimant, and only upon major federal actions. Even if the the Forest Service could require a POO, asking for one before the agency has done the environmental assessment of the major federal action it is conducting is having the cart before the horse. What assessment of actionable environmental harm is the Plan of Operations based and to protect against?

a) BUT a valuable mineral deposit entry is not a federal action, major or otherwise, upon which the Forest Service can do an environmental assessment.

b) The mineral entryman is not a contractor or "operator", or paid under contract to the US.

c) The NEPA is not applicable, and even if so, any actions under consideration would weigh in favor of the producer, the obligation upon the Forest Service to show its actions where practicable. In other words, that every other thing was tried to stop the identified harm before interfering with the claimant, and then including compensation.

d) There is no OMB number for any Plan allowing the Forest Service to demand information.

3) The Wild and Scenic Act ceased to exist, by its own terms, in 2008 if you give the Secretary of Interior the extension that he did not ask for but was required to ask for.

a) Even if the Act does exist there are saving clauses preserving mining, with the limitation that you can't dam those waters in the Wild and Scenic rivers.

i) If so, the river must be navigable and under the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard.

A) And this was "confirmed", if we didn't know better, because we have successfully asserted this lack of jurisdiction to the Army Corps of Engineers over a non-navigable river and that if it were navigable the ACoE wouldn't have jurisdiction because the Coast Guard would; The army officer making the demand for a permit agreeing by not further communicating or continuing the demand for a Clean Water Act permit. . .which CWA Act is not applicable either.

4) And that the Forest Service is controlled by the FLPMA, with its savings clauses, as well, and how the 228's can't be applied because of the repeal of other US Codes authorizing them in favor of the FLPMA; Which the prejudicial “judiciary” is ignoring, making that fact even more important to get on the administrative record.

Again, there is a lot more that can and must be brought to bear to counter the Forest Service making a record condemning the grantee, but this is a start. A lot to learn but its all out there for the grantee to use and to protect himself. Or make it much more difficult for an agency to interfere. . . Which is a felony crime. . . . and as we told the ACoE Army officer, is also a violation with national security implications, 30 USC 1803-06.

Jefferson Mining District was established to get ahead of this but until grantees step up and begin to protect themselves, we'll be picked off one grantee at a time, the most ignorant among of in our rights going down first.

And, as an aside, we just got the word, am other miner has regained access to his claim through the effort of grantees in Jefferson Mining District working with Baker County to counter an unlawful Forest Service road closure, including refilling tank trap. . . . . One more miner to work this year because a grantee wouldn't allow the unlawful obstruction and by these laws, Jefferson Mining District - Mining in Oregon - South West Oregon Mining Association Click on the HIGHWAYS button.

Your valid mineral rights come with your acceptance of the grant, fulfillment of what Congress declared is required, which is as little as intending to prospect for valuable minerals, not what the agencies can extort under color of authority.
 

Why is there no easy to follow set of criteria... a checklist and associated documents for " perfecting" a claim...every time I have seen it explained it is still vauge. Of course the big guys do it all the time. I want to hear the experience and procedure from a small scale miner who has been through it step by step including associated costs.What paperwork was filed and with whom. In a clear logical easy to understand manner. No Latin, no law theory....just "Hey....My name is Jim Argonaut and this is how I perfected my claim....If this is so crucial will someone please explain it in a way that actually makes sense.In a way that we can pass on to our fellow miners.The majority of M.E.G.'s posts come off as you guys are being screwed, you have all the rights, the mining laws have your back, the Gov. is over stepping they can't do this if you perfect its's real property.....though if you have not perfected your claim as it is risks invalidation....Sorry if I'm a dummy and just don't get it....But, I just don't get it ! So please ridicule me, make fun of my lack of knowledge...But, for the love of god give me some usable information.
 

We have made a discovery...filed our claimed to the letter....done maintenance work, recovered gold....have every historical and geological reason backed by sampling to show gold in reserve....so, what else to we do?
 

It's all explained to the last detail in the 1872 Act. You can read ALL the steps needed to perfect your claim there. If you have prepared your claim to a location to sustain a patent exam you have perfected it.

Read the entire 1872 Act here

Please note that a simple recovery of gold does not amount to a "discovery". See the prudent man rule. There is no requirement that you show you can make a profit - only that a prudent man would reasonably expect to make a profit when all the facts are considered. It's the facts about the nature and extent of your location that you are after if you wish to perfect your claim.

This is a well established process already accomplished by miners thousands of times. It's not rocket science but it is the science and practice of prospecting to sample and prove the resources and the most reasonable means to mine them. Prove your mineral resources and the cost to mine them and you are 90% of the way to a perfected claim. The rest is, as MEG wrote, keeping up on your paperwork (accurate, properly noticed Location) and doing your annual labor.

Mining companies use these methods on every deposit they develop. Not because of the law but because it wouldn't be prudent to mine a deposit that hadn't been proven. If you can't prove the deposit you don't have mineable ground. That's how the mining business works today and for the last several thousand years. It is the essence of perfecting a claim.

Don't get wrapped up in the Forest Service regs or the BLM websites. As you may have already noticed none of that has anything to do with perfecting your claim. Read and understand the law linked above.

Heavy Pans
 

My travel time to said claim is six minutes......I can extract gold every time I am there.......With a pan and screwdriver...More so with a power_sluice or dredge or dry-vac and home processing..six minutes away. I have recovered and sold more gold from the drainage pre and post filing than the cost of filing. Gold sells at a premium when you know what your doing. All of my equipment has been paid for from previous prospecting profit and my profits from working my a$$ of since I was 15. So does the Government actually consider these factors when quantifying prudence. It costs me nothing to mine my claim. Other than the time I put into research and sweat equity. I have to spend ZERO money to increase production as of this moment I am literally waiting for the wet season. So we can run the power sluice and/ or bazooka miner. Capital is capital. Do they infer that to be a miner you should only be a miner? That to have a perfected claim your enterprise can't be pre-established and its revenue is dependent on that initial claims success.?By nature it would seem you may want to take several years do decide prudence on your own before "making it official" and wasting money when you've already spent some? Would seem you have the right to be smart and not "lose" your claim because it is not perfected. I respect your knowledge so much Barry. I knew you would be lurking and answer pretty quickly. It was your comments I was hoping for. Yet, you didn't answer to any of my points. Which are very relevant. As most claim holders are like me and my partner. And not like the the miners that have accomplished it thousands of times. As we are now a fractured group with broken heritage. I know how much knowledge you have had to dig for and even Bejay says he is still learning. I know it is spelled out in the mining act.....yet, you can not deny that it is colored changed and effected by our present time and culture. My request was in regard to that and quite simple. And if so simple to you and M.E.G and Bejay then please elaborate....guide....roleplay whatever just stop telling us how we havn't reached our full capacity as true miners and prospectors. And, help us perfect our claims. I would never ask someone to show me where to dig. But I will absorb anything I could observe. Law and theory of it when professed by others is gonna require some backing and you guys are the one throwing that bone on the table. Of course we should taste of it....you shared it. Yet, are holding it above our noses and were just puppies:laughing7:...help out the pack.......man:thumbsup:
 

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It's not based on what you have done Goldwasher, it's based on what you can do in the future. Unless you are willing to do the work to prove the nature and extent of the deposit and then do the work to calculate a reasonable way to mine that deposit at a profit you have rights only against other prospectors.

The grant is not given, it's earned. It's not earned by digging gold it's earned by proving there is enough gold in your location, recoverable at less expense and effort than the value of the proven reserve of gold that's there. Showing a mineral examiner a bucket of gold means nothing. Showing a mineral examiner a great production history from a past producer means almost nothing. Mineral examiners investigate the potential future return possibilities. You should too if you want a perfected claim.

Have you gridded your claim and done a quantitative analysis of your mineral potential? Have you recorded your finds and your expenses? Have you proven the most reasonable method of mining your defined deposit and done a current calculation of the expense? Can you give a reasonably accurate ROI for the whole deposit? Does that deposit prove every 10 acres of your claim to be mineral in nature? Please understand that if you can't prove that then it's pretty unlikely that a mineral examiner will. If you can prove it you have no fear of a mineral examination. You also have confidence that you have something valuable that you own. So valuable that the government will have to give you that land for $2.50 an acre when your patent application is processed. :)

Perfecting a claim is not about getting some gold. Perfecting a claim is about establishing your right to the land that holds the proven minerals there. If you just wanted the right to the minerals alone - well keep up your paperwork. Paperwork won't perfect your claim nor will it give you a right against congressional disposal of the land, but it will let you keep paying your fees and covering your equipment costs from what you mine.

I thew you a "bone"? I gave you the law and the sure knowledge that this is done as a science by many miners every year in this country. That's not a bone that's a fact. We have one of the most dynamic, active and productive mining cultures in the world in this country. That mining industry is driven by, and legally controlled by, the necessity to perfect a deposit before mining even be considered. Look around you! There are billions made in mining in this country every year!

If you see yourself as part of "a fractured group with a broken heritage" you must be referring to a different country or a different group of professionals than the miners I work with everyday. The mineral grant is the greatest opportunity available to the small miner in the world today. Small rich deposits still exist in this country in abundance. Because of the structure of the mining industry today only the small miner has the possibility of claiming and mining those deposits. The mining companies aren't going to touch anything that won't gross over 800 million dollars with a minimum 14% return. Everything else is wide open for people like you and I.

Go dig some gold or actually prospect your claim. Get some yellow or perfect your claim. The choice is yours. If you perfect your claim you have an excellent defense against all who would challenge you.

I'll be sharing a lot more about the techniques of proving deposits in the near future. Please don't lose heart because you don't know those techniques. If you are eager to get started perfecting your claim as the professionals do then use the resources available. We have several of the best mining schools in the world. There is more than 160 years of mining practice documented in this country. Get educated, do the work and you can do what thousands of other miners do every year - perfect your mining claim. :thumbsup:

Heavy Pans
 

Goldwasher- if you call the redding cal. Office of the blm they have a book avaliable called "location and validity of mining claims in california" which costs $15 but covers all the mining laws you can think of including the steps to prove validity.
I was told by the mineral examiner i have been talking to "we generally dont do exams unless you are planning on production mining" at any rate he has been less than helpful, seems they like to make it difficult.
I really appreciate the nuts and bolts threads, very helpful!
 

Something to consider is what is worthless gangue today may not always be so. A lot of "worthless " country rock was used to build railroad beds. Now their finding rare earth elements, lithium ,etc. in those beds. Also I don't think that there has ever been a time constraint on proving the value of your claim
 

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