THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO - LAST CALL?

[swiftsearcher]

I have spoken with a Shawnee Indian this year who gave me one hint on the location of one entrance/exit of the Great Shawnee Cave. The area is large however - too large for me to hunt a lone with one detector and two eyes.

I had a thought of maybe getting a group together to look for it - maybe doing like the old Army "Police Calls" - where we get in a line, so far apart, and slowly search the area. The area would consist of the top of the mountain and the South Side - wouldn't have to search the North side, according to my directions.

The best time to do this would probably be after Deer Rifle Season in the area (I wouldn't want any hunter shooting at us by mistake). This would put the date of the search around the third weekend in Nov.

Anyone interested, can reply here or e-mail me at [email protected]. Also, IF we found a cache - we would divide it equally among the entire group. Otherwise - single finds - keep what you find (If it relates to Swift, I might want to take a pic for my book however).

 

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[kydave]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

Might be interested if i can make it up that mountian. Are we talkin about the Red River Gorge area or what?

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

Dave,

I am not going to climb some rough areas. I think I have found a way (old road on the map) to drive close to where I plan to go. BTW - I have my SI Joint (the joint that joins my back and hip) out of place, three bulging discs and one torn disc, so I cannot go anywhere too rough or too fast.

The area is between the Breaks and Pound that I plan to search for the cave.

 

[kydave]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

Wow! Sounds like you have some problems! I can still climb a mountian, but not as fast as i used to. Let me know after deer season and i'll see if i can make it. I also knew Paul Hensen and have all of his books. As a matter of fact his wife Nancy, passed away last Feb. and i don't know who is selling his research now if anybody.

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

Dave, I can still get around most places I want to go - just not as fast as I use to (plus, I usually double my medication before heading out in the field).

I hate to hear about Mrs. Henson - actually, I was not aware of her passing. I have most of Paul's books - just cannot find "John Swift's Lost Silver Mines" anywhere. Anyone have a copy for sale or know where I can get one, I would gladly purchase it.

I will be in touch later Dave - after Deer season to see if you can go. I have narrowed down the area to about one mile or so. But, I guess that will still be like finding a needle in a haystack. Still, it is always great to be out in the Mountains it seems.

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

Just checked the hunting seasons. Looks like Bear season starts immediately following Deer season in this area and lasts until Dec. 16th. The next weekend would be the 23rd and 24th of December - so, that would probably not be a good time for everyone either. I am free during the week myself. However, I don't know if all the people who contacted me are free during the week. If everyone that wants to go can go during the week - before Christmas Eve, then we could plan for a couple days that week of hunting. If everyone cannot make it during that week, we will have to reschedule for a weekend hunt. Anyway, all the people who want to go can e-mail me and let me know.

BTW - be sure to bring good lights, detector and extra batteries. B/C we will be detecting all the walls of the caves (I believe this is where people might have missed Swift's cache in the Great Cave - expecting it to be lying on the ground or in a room of the cave. However, Swift stated he "walled up" the room that the silver was stored in - making it look like the rest of the cave).

As in most of the caches I have found of Swift's, someone has probably gotten the cache of Silver long ago, but you never know. And, there is the excitement of finding other items as well!

 

[richg]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

what state are we talking about?

 

[swiftsearcher]

Re: THE GREAT SHAWNEE CAVE - WHO WANTS TO GO?

richg,

We are talking about the KY/VA line. We will probably meet up in Pound VA at the gas station near the top of Jenkins Mountain. Feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] if you would like to go (or anyone else for that matter).

 

[swiftsearcher]

Spoke with a member a few times on the phonw and have become good friends with him. Turns out, he is coming in the week of Jan. 8th. Of course, he will spend the first couple of days with family and friends. So, we have decided to start this hunt for the Great Cave on Jan. 10th. The hunt will probably be every day, starting the 10th for about a week (except for Sat. - Rooster Fights that day).

If you would like to travel along with us one of these days, feel free to e-mail me at my new e-mail address: [email protected].

 

[snake35]

I am back in Louisa Ky. Let me know when you want to go and I will adjust my schedule. You can email me at [email protected]

 

[swiftsearcher]

Snake,

Sorry I wasn't that clear. The first day out will be Jan. 10th. We will probably go back daily for a week (except for Saturday).

We will probably meet at the gas station that is on 23 - near the entrance to Pound Lake, as you go up to Jenkins Mountain from Pound on 23 (From VA to KY). The gas station will be on the right at the Pound Lake entrance (VA side) for those coming from KY.

Again, feel free to e-mail me for specifics at [email protected] (such as time, what to bring etc.).

Look forward to meeting everyone and discussing what each of us have found so far. It will be great to be back out in the field for me (I haven't been back out since before Archery Deer Season first started).

Scott

 

[swiftsearcher]

We aren't actually searching for the mine. I have already found the first mine the small crew worked in 1761. I then went West, as Swift stated and found the waterfall and his rockhouse (with another rockhouse 100 yards above). That is where I found the Silversmithing hammer in the scan - between the waterfall and rockhouse on a ledge. I also am almost CERTAIN I found the middle mine one day, following Swift's directions from the rockhouse and waterfall. It is sealed up, just as Swift stated all the mines were after the first year. I found it by going to the head of the drain, as stated and there were old paths on the cliff - one leading to this mine, which I spotted b/c the color of the rock was diff. than the rest of the cliff (where Swift had sealed it, the rock is now a different color than the natural rock).

Anyway, I can tell you that you are incorrect about the mines being North of where we are searching for the Great Cave. I KNOW where the richest mine is. I have found the Turtle Back Rock and the direction from the rockhouse is EXACTLY as Swift stated. In fact, I have the area of this mine pinpointed down to within a few hundred yards - I might take one day when people are here and show them the area and we can pinpoint this mine. I haven't even searched for the rich one yet, as I am in NO shape to mine ore - especially in this area! I would like to find the large mine and take some pics for my book. In fact, the ONLY landmark I have NOT found is suppose to be right above this rich mine - the Chestnut Bur Rock. That would make a GREAT pic for the book! I have found the Turtle Back Rock (which is "Near" the rich mine) and the spring of Indian Beads and Lighthouse Rock, which are BOTH to the WEST of the rich mine. I guess the "rich mine" would be worth busting through and going into, since Swift did hide some coins and silver, along with some tools in the "rich mine". This will be the ONLY one worth going into now - to get what Swift hid, b/c you cannot mine any ore in the area, as Penn VA owns all the Mineral Rights in the area (plus, the terrain would present such a hardship as well).

The person I have been speaking with (Mr. Hurst) has a GOOD LEAD on the Great Cave. Also, I have another GOOD LEAD in another area. Why I say they are BOTH good leads is b/c the one cave I know of (and have not been in yet), is to the East of the rockhouse I found - on Swift's way out. The Good Lead my friend has is in the area that was most likely for Swift to meet with his other party and would be in the area that BOTH Swift parties used to exit the area.

Like I have stated before, I have well over a hundred pics. My friend and I are going to go to some of the sights I have found and I am going to video them when we go, b/c a LOT of pics did not turn out. I have promised to take this person to the waterfall and rockhouse I found, as well as showing him some of the other landmarks. I will probably do this one day when we are not out in the field with the others.

I am not going to give away all of my findings yet, but I will divulge EVERYTHING in my book next year. All I can say is SEVERAL TH'ers will be very surprised - ESPECIALLY those who thought Paul Henson knew what he was talking about regarding Swift's mine - he was WAY OFF! I will also point out a couple of differences between the journals I used and some Henson posted - the differences are small, but can lead one WAY OFF target. I think this is what happened to Henson, as I followed my journals EXACTLY as stated and have found EVERYTHING so far, except for the main "richest mine". Although, it was NO PICNIC, as the area is ROUGH and covered with Laurel.

Mr. Hurst and I have discussed in some length as to why the Great Cave has NOT been found. We have also discussed why the Great Cave "findings" are WRONG! We are BOTH in agreement on this fact, as everything adds up the way we discussed. In fact, when discussing the Great Cave, we could almost fill in what the other was going to say before it was said - it seems Mr. Hurst has done his homework as well, b/c he has also come up with some areas I have found that NOBODY has mentioned before - in a MUCH DIFFERENT area than previously thought.

Anyway, enough rambling - I can save the rambling and details for my book. The only two things I need to look for are now the Great Cave and the Richest Mine. I KNOW I can find the richest mine, as I have it almost pinpointed. In fact, I will probably let Mr. Hurst go with me on this adventure, since I have put a lot of trust and confidence into this gentleman. Anyone on this board, however, is welcome to accompany us on our search for the Great Cave that we will be doing on Pine Mountain.

A few things I have an "idea" where they are located but will not search for, includes all of the caches mentioned BESIDES the ones in the rockhouse, near the rockhouse and the Great Cave and cache in the Richest Mine. I don't have time to search for these. I KNOW of two creeks that could be the one Swift mentions hiding SEVERAL crowns on. I have also pinpointed the vicinity of the cache left behind when Monday's horse was snake bitten. I WILL INCLUDE THESE WITH DIRECTIONS IN MY BOOK NEXT YEAR - hoping someone can find them, or at least that I was correct and find evidence that the caches were "once" there.

I KNOW for a fact several of Swift's caches have been found, as I found the rockhouse dug out completely on the right side (where Swift hid crowns). I also walked off the poles from the rockhouse for the other caches Swift left behind. I found the creeks and cache sights. HOWEVER, the ONLY things remaining were some very rusty metal rings that once held wooden kegs together - I took pics of these.

 

[cavers5]

UHHH, fellas....

Not to bust yer bubble, but yer metal detecting on National Forest Land which is clearly marked on maps. Is this legal? Do you have to have permits?

I am from this area and that part of Pine is my playground.

Cavers5

 

[cavers5]

Henson's research was divided between two guys. I know one of them wrote for Lost Treasure (maybe the other one did, too) and if I remember correctly, and I may be wrong as I don't have my notes in front of me, the deal was to continue his mailings of state treasure leads for people who wanted them and to maintain his column (I think) in Lost Treasure. I believe one of the gentlemen's name was Anthony P?? Right off the bat, I can't remember the other guy's name.

I'm sorry to hear of Mrs. Henson's passing as well. I spoke to Michael Paul many times and his wife several times as well. They were always helpful to me. I have one sad memory though. Michael Paul wanted to come down and visit a certain cave with me and we were not able to get a good scheduling date between us. We were both very busy and alas, it never came to pass. If I remember correctly, and I could be wrong, he began having heart problems and I had moved, so we did not make time to do it.

A tribute to them both.

Cavers5

 

[swiftsearcher]

TP and all,

I have read Henson's works. Ralph Hurst and I discussed this when he came down to search with me some during the week we were going to look for the Great Shawnee Cave. I even took Ralph to Swift's old Rockhouse smelter and waterfall and showed him the Turtle Back rock. Unfortunately, he had to leave before I could show him more of the landmarks I have found.

I can say one thing and I will discuss this at detailed length in my book on finding these mines, Henson was WRONG! After talking to Ralph and showing him things and discussing the matter with him, Ralph even states that reading Henson's books made one believe that Henson thought Swift was in a certain area which he NEVER could have been and never changed his belief of this - more or less trying to make things fit the area Henson was "Certain" Swift was at.

I went by two journals I found in my quest. Both were much different from Henson's - mainly in directions! I will discuss this at length in my book as well. I went by the journals and found the first mine. I then went to the saddle gap and found the rockhouse and waterfall on the creek that flows just as Swift mentioned (I even found an 18th Century Silversmithing hammer here) - BTW - this is just BEFORE the National Forest line!

Henson might have been a great guy, but I can tell you for a FACT that he was wrong and I will prove it later this year with my book. I have tons of pics of all the landmarks Swift mentioned - except the few I have not found near the richest mine (Buffalo Rock, Chestnut Bur Rock and the Tea Kettle Rock). I have pinpointed to within a few hundred yards from my other discoveries to where this rich mine is located, I have just not made it there yet - I will probably do this after I look for one of the last caches of crowns I plan to look for next week.

I will just state this - that when I get my book and pictures published, there will be a lot of people surprised!

 

[cavers5]

Swiftsearcher,

I sincerely hope that you took pictures of your artifact in situ before you removed it from its location. Also, I hope that you took coordinate readings of the location with a GPS. If you were not on National Forest Property, then you have a limited area in which to search. I hope that you have permission from landowners. If you are from here, you know how important that is.

If you don't mind telling us, how was your artifact identified as a silversmithing hammer and who identified it?

I'm sorry I wasn't able to join your group on this trip. Perhaps if you have another one, I can try to make it.

Thanks and good luck,
Cavers5

 

[swiftsearcher]

Guys,

I don't know if you have read my posts before. However, as Ralph can account, I don't care if I get rich off of a book or treasure finds - I really don't. I just want to do the book to show people where all of this is located. BTW - I stated the search for the Shawnee Cave was going to be on Pine Mountain - I never stated that what all I have found is on Pine Mountain. There are only a handful of people, including Ralph Hurst and family members who actually know the location of my finds.

The silversmithing hammer is pictured in this thread and was identified by a dealer of these items. Plus, you can go on eBay and do a search for silversmithing hammers if you doubt me. You won't find any this old, but will find some in the 1800's on up to being new - you can immediately tell from the pics in the auctions that they are identical to this hammer in appearance.

There are other finds I have made as well that will be included in my book - including one cache find that I left where it was at (b/c someone took the silver years ago - all that remained are the almost gone, rusted keg metal rings), but took pics of the metal rings (what were left of them) for proof. This find was made by walking off the poles mentioned by Swift.

I have also stated before that I am not a miner. PLUS, the actual mines ARE on National Forest land - I don't have the time nor health to wait on approval from the Govt. with all their red tape to form a mining crew. Plus, I don't have the money to sponsor this event either.

I am not doubting that there are mines in the areas you people have mentioned. These are old Spanish and/or French/Indian workings however - just like the ones in Cumberland Gap and other areas. I am telling you this b/c I followed two Swift Journals word for word and so far, they have led me to everything he has mentioned!

The only caches I feel would be worth getting help on are the ones Swift mentioned on a particular creek - I have located this creek. However, the area is so filled with rocks and laurel and large that one man could look for the clues and caches there for a lifetime! Also, I really believe some of these caches are still there. However, this area is on National Forest land, so I haven't and probably won't even look there at all!

So, basically all I can tell you all now is that Swift's rich mine is NOT on Pine Mountain ridge - I never stated this. There are some mines on this ridge and I will detail that as well in my book. I also believe there is some silver stashed away on Pine Mountain - if it has not all been found - I will explain this as well. I just don't have the time nor room to explain here.

Best Regards,

Swiftsearcher

 

[cavers5]

Hi Swiftsearcher,

It's not doubting on my part. Personally, I like to keep a list of reputable appraisers and dealers who really know their stuff! None of us are sure when we will run across a cache or unknown artifact and it's just a good idea to already have a list of people that can help you out if you do dig up a cache or need an item identified. That's one of the reasons why TNet is so useful to detectorists. It keeps us in touch so we can learn from each other.

Also, I know there's no problem with just visually surveying for Swift clues on National Forest Land. There are a number of us who live near the National Forest that do that all the time. Most of us are just very careful about where we dig. We do try to live in the bounds of the law, as hard or useless as that may seem at times! I wasn't trying to discourage or discredit you in any way. I just wasn't sure if you were from here and were aware of the land boundaries.

I'm looking forward to your book. Please keep us updated. Also, you and the others are welcome to our Treasure meeting that we'll be having this Spring, if you're interested.

You know, critique and an open mind can be wonderful things. It keeps us on our toes. I don't care if you are a Nun, literally shining with God's light, there will ALWAYS be someone that says, "Why, that's just a prostitute in disguise!"

Hee! Hee! Maybe an odd example, but to the point. Naysayers will always exist. So what?

I'm stepping down from my box now.

Sincerely,
Cavers5

 

[swiftsearcher]

Cavers5,

Nice post. I would definitely be interested in the Spring meeting. Keep us posted, as I would love to meet some of you in person and see what everyone is up to.

Regards,

Swiftsearcher

 

[cavers5]

So,

What's in the Great Shawnee Cave? Is it just supposed to be Swift's caches or are there supposed to be burials and artifacts as well? Just wondering.

Cavers5