The Disputed Territory

[bigscoop]

The disputed territory. There was a lot of interest from certain individuals concerning the disputed territory on the US & Spanish frontier. So when we think of Laffite, Champ De Asile, Joseph, and Girard, etc., all of these different motivations have to be considered. To assume that all of these individuals held the same shared underlying motivations would be inaccurate.


A disputed territory is just that, it is a region of real estate that is in dispute with no legally defined owner or single jurisdiction. It might surprise you to know that this situation leaves the door open to possible claims by any third party that might decide to settle and establish themselves in the region. Perhaps this was Lallemand's goal with Champ De Asile. Perhaps this was Laffite's goal with his settling at Galveston Island, perhaps Joseph and Girard had their own motivations as well for taking part in these two enterprises. The ambitions are the same, however, the individual motivations can still be quite different.


In recent times, as witnessed by the information in the following link, this same type of disputed land grab still take place. I've only posted this link so you can gather a better idea of what can take place in these situations and why someone might feel motivated to pursue the venture. Imagine being able to make your son's and daughters official princesses and princes, you an official king and your wife a queen, etc., etc., etc.


Clueless Man Claims Territory in North Sudan to Make Daughter Princess


So when we talk of Galveston Island and those who were involved in the region perhaps we should research all of the possible individual motivations for their involvement. Laffite, the Lallemands, Joseph, Girard, in the beginning they all had their own ideals and motivations with their only shared point of interest being the rescue of Napoleon Bonaparte but from here they all had radically different notions after this unrealized hope. So it is a mistake to view them all under the same light.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[bigscoop]

When Lafitte relocated to Galveston Island he did so under the motto, “construct, explore, colonize.”
When Lallemand settled in this same disputed region he did this very same thing as well.
Both of these parties also made noticeable efforts to maintain friendly relations with both the US and Spain.


Under an existing agreement neither Spain nor the US held sole jurisdiction over the disputed region. The US was aware of what was going on in the region as was De Onis, which was the main focus of his complaints to Washington since this activity had originated in the US. Mexico and even the British were also aware of the events being played out in the disputed territory, the British, even sharing intelligence with the US regarding these events.


One has to remember that certain individuals became involved with these Galveston affairs “before there was a pending treaty settling the existing border dispute between the US and Spain.” Once this pending treaty had been realized there becomes a noticeable change in attitude and motivation in men like Joseph and Girard, this pending treaty quickly changing the face of the original enterprise pursued.


One also has to realize that both Laffite and Lallemand make decided efforts to portray recognizable existing forms of “government” within their settlements. So when we consider the much broader view of what was really taking place in the “disputed territory” the apparent soon becomes the obvious. The Adams Onis Treaty put a decided end to all of it. The Monroe Doctrine served to squelch any such future efforts.

 

[bigscoop]

Keep in mind that when we research the efforts and motivations of both Laffite and Lallemand we also discover a noticeable difference in their perceptions as the end result of their efforts. So right from the very beginning their existed a conflict of interest in this perceived end result, yet both of them were also relaying on various forms of support from the same resources.

 

[bigscoop]

Within all of these complexities and circumstances Galveston Island remained that most vital piece of real estate because above all else you must have a port of entry and commerce for the various enterprises being pursued. To the north you have the disputed territory in Colorado that if gained would permit access to commerce from the Pacific. And to the east you have a possible trade route to Saint Louis and the mighty Mississippi. Of course, first you have to establish yourself in the said disputed territory and then you have to establish "construct, explore, colonize" before you can begin the process of making legal claim of that said territory.

 

[bigscoop]

Now then, as for how all of this possibly relates to the Beale story.....there is record of two large shipments of wealth coming from the disputed region in question that fall in perfect chronological order to the dates of deposit in this Beale story. Remember, a portion of Colorado was also part of the disputed territory. And, there also exist huge sources of influence and wealth and motivation backing all of the outlined efforts. And in all of this we can "directly" tie one man to all of it and also to Bedford County, Virgina. That being Mexico Sherman, the uncle of John Sherman, the editor of the print shop that produced the pamphlet.

Now this isn't enough to conclusively prove that the Beale story was a true narrative of two large deposits of wealth, however, it is more then enough to conclude that this possibility stands very strong as being the actual source behind the tale. And when we toss in all of the other details outlined in other recent threads concerning this same theory then the possibility becomes extremely strong reason to not slam the door closed on this mystery as being simply a work of fiction just yet.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Now then, as for how all of this possibly relates to the Beale story.....there is record of two large shipments of wealth coming from the disputed region in question that fall in perfect chronological order to the dates of deposit in this Beale story. Remember, a portion of Colorado was also part of the disputed territory. And, there also exist huge sources of influence and wealth and motivation backing all of the outlined efforts. And in all of this we can "directly" tie one man to all of it and also to Bedford County, Virgina. That being Mexico Sherman, the uncle of John Sherman, the editor of the print shop that produced the pamphlet.

Now this isn't enough to conclusively prove that the Beale story was a true narrative of two large deposits of wealth, however, it is more then enough to conclude that this possibility stands very strong as being the actual source behind the tale. And when we toss in all of the other details outlined in other recent threads concerning this same theory then the possibility becomes extremely strong reason to not slam the door closed on this mystery as being simply a work of fiction just yet.

Story COULDA been used for Beale PAPERS Pamphlet...

 

[bigscoop]

Story COULDA been used for Beale PAPERS Pamphlet...

What is so amazing to me in all of this are the absolutely insane odds that the only verified/confirmed "Thomas J. Beale" turns out to be an alderman (older man) living in Richmond Virginia in 1884, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication. If this man was in his mid to late 80's or early 90's in 1884 then I'd say with near certainty that this has got to be the correct Thomas J. Beale. Sadly, I have been unable to discover anything else about this man. Go figure......however, I do have my educated hunches concerning this individual and the real purpose behind the pamphlet's publication.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

What is so amazing to me in all of this are the absolutely insane odds that the only verified/confirmed "Thomas J. Beale" turns out to be an alderman (older man) living in Richmond Virginia in 1884, just one year prior to the pamphlet's publication. If this man was in his mid to late 80's or early 90's in 1884 then I'd say with near certainty that this has got to be the correct Thomas J. Beale. Sadly, I have been unable to discover anything else about this man. Go figure......however, I do have my educated hunches concerning this individual and the real purpose behind the pamphlet's publication.

I MAY have some info "of interest", NOT connected to Beale PAPERS Pamphlet... BBL.

 

[ECS]

Now then, as for how all of this possibly relates to the Beale story.....there is record of two large shipments of wealth coming from the disputed region in question that fall in perfect chronological order to the dates of deposit in this Beale story... And in all of this we can "directly" tie one man to all of it and also to Bedford County, Virgina. That being Mexico Sherman, the uncle of John Sherman, the editor of the print shop that produced the pamphlet...

Mathew "Mexico" Sherman was the captain of the TORPEO, a merchant ship of William Patterson's CANTON CO. out of Baltimore. Paterson's daughter, Elizabeth, married Jerome Bonaparte, so, yes, there is a possibly connexion to Girard by way of the Bonaparte's.
Including Sherman into this "record of two large shipments of wealth", would not Patterson, as Sherman's employer and owner of the Torpedo, also be involved?

 

[bigscoop]

Mathew "Mexico" Sherman.....and I'll put the quotes around it again just in case you're not making the other possible/obvious connection..."Mexico"....also relocated close to the original Vine and Olive grant. So now, not only do we have all of the other proposed connections, but we also have the one man who can be directly related to Bedford County, Galveston Bay and the refugees, but he's also carrying about the moniker,......."Mexico."

Now we can say that all of this is just fitting history into the tale but at what point do "exacting" coincidences quit being coincidence?

 

[ECS]

The disputed territory. There was a lot of interest from certain individuals concerning the disputed territory on the US & Spanish frontier. So when we think of Laffite, Champ De Asile, Joseph, and Girard, etc., all of these different motivations have to be considered. To assume that all of these individuals held the same shared underlying motivations would be inaccurate.


A disputed territory is just that, it is a region of real estate that is in dispute with no legally defined owner or single jurisdiction...
So when we talk of Galveston Island and those who were involved in the region perhaps we should research all of the possible individual motivations for their involvement...

In 1816, Galveston was the base of French corsair, Luis-Michel Aury, which Aury named, Campeche.
While Galveston was a part of Spanish Texas at that time, Aury had warehouses stocked with arms and gunpowder which he supplied to General Francisco Mina and Simon Bolivar in their revolution against Spain.
At this time, the Lafitte brother would carry goods to Aury, but unknown to him, they were active spies for the Spanish government, working under the code name, "number thirteen".
While Pierre Lafitte stayed in New Orleans, Jean was directed by the Spanish government to take Galveston away from Aury.
Lafitte's opportunity came, March 1817, when Aury departed to capture Soto La Marina , Mexico. With Aury gone, Galveston became Lafitte's in two weeks, and when Aury returned in July, Lafitte told him to move on.
Compeche began Lafitte's center for his smuggling business, "fencing" for other smugglers, including Jim Bowie.

 

[ECS]

...
Now we can say that all of this is just fitting history into the tale but at what point do "exacting" coincidences quit being coincidence?...

When it becomes undisputable proof.

 

[bigscoop]

In 1816, Galveston was the base of French corsair, Luis-Michel Aury, which Aury named, Campeche.
While Galveston was a part of Spanish Texas at that time, Aury had warehouses stocked with arms and gunpowder which he supplied to General Francisco Mina and Simon Bolivar in their revolution against Spain.
At this time, the Lafitte brother would carry goods to Aury, but unknown to him, they were active spies for the Spanish government, working under the code name, "number thirteen".
While Pierre Lafitte stayed in New Orleans, Jean was directed by the Spanish government to take Galveston away from Aury.
Lafitte's opportunity came, March 1817, when Aury departed to capture Soto La Marina , Mexico. With Aury gone, Galveston became Lafitte's in two weeks, and when Aury returned in July, Lafitte told him to move on.
Compeche began Lafitte's center for his smuggling business, "fencing" for other smugglers, including Jim Bowie.

Have you actually seen a document, or can reference one, that establishes that "the Spanish" ordered Laffite to take Galveston Island? This is something that comes up from time to time but from everything I've researched and had passed on to me by other researches it appears that this claim is just a guess and not really a matter of fact. Apparently this deduction is being based on some known relationships Laffite had with certain individuals in New Orleans, primarily with the priest who Laffite was using to gain intel and certain favor. Jean Laffite, first and foremost, was an opportunist.

 

[ECS]

Have you actually seen a document, or can reference one, that establishes that "the Spanish" ordered Laffite to take Galveston Island?... Jean Laffite, first and foremost, was an opportunist.

The Spanish government wanted Aury out of the picture-was it an order or suggestion? It was proposed to LaFitte, the opportunist, who went ahead for his own purposes. Lafitte played many sides, always for HIS best interest.

 

[ECS]

Mathew "Mexico" Sherman.....and I'll put the quotes around it again just in case you're not making the other possible/obvious connection..."Mexico"....also relocated close to the original Vine and Olive grant. So now, not only do we have all of the other proposed connections, but we also have the one man who can be directly related to Bedford County, Galveston Bay and the refugees, but he's also carrying about the moniker,......."Mexico." ...

...and where in the Beale Papers is a mention of Mexico and Galveston? This is a tenuous connection at best to fit pieces into a pet theory.
You have a presented a chain of coincidence based on Adams-Onis, Olive & Vine, Champ 'd Asile linked to Bonaparte, yet provide no solid connection to the Beale Papers.
Now I have present a chain of coincidence related to the events in the lives of several members of the extended Risqué family bloodline that closely parallel the events in the depicted Beale story in the job pamphlet.
If the Beale story in the pamphlet is not true as written, a "cover story" for this French adventure of transporting wealth, or just a dime adventure treasure novel with included ciphers sold only in Bedford county, which chain of coincidence theory has the strongest links?

 

[bigscoop]

...and where in the Beale Papers is a mention of Mexico and Galveston? This is a tenuous connection at best to fit pieces into a pet theory.
You have a presented a chain of coincidence based on Adams-Onis, Olive & Vine, Champ 'd Asile linked to Bonaparte, yet provide no solid connection to the Beale Papers.
Now I have present a chain of coincidence related to the events in the lives of several members of the extended Risqué family bloodline that closely parallel the events in the depicted Beale story in the job pamphlet.
If the Beale story in the pamphlet is not true as written, a "cover story" for this French adventure of transporting wealth, or just a dime adventure treasure novel with included ciphers sold only in Bedford county, which chain of coincidence theory has the strongest links?

Honestly.....I consider it a draw, or my, "great divide", the straddling of the fence.

 

[ECS]

When Lafitte relocated to Galveston Island he did so under the motto, “construct, explore, colonize.” ...
One has to remember that certain individuals became involved with these Galveston affairs “before there was a pending treaty settling the existing border dispute between the US and Spain.” Once this pending treaty had been realized there becomes a noticeable change in attitude and motivation in men like Joseph and Girard, this pending treaty quickly changing the face of the original enterprise pursued.
...

Jean Lafitte's 1815 espionage mission for Spain began in Philadelphia:
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=4424
For some reason this link does not work.
Google "Lafittes espionage mission for Spain.

 

[bigscoop]

Jean Lafitte's 1815 espionage mission for Spain began in Philadelphia:
http://www.encyclopediaofarkansas.net/entry-detail.aspx?entryID=4424
For some reason this link does not work.
Google "Lafittes espionage mission for Spain.

I'm familiar with that info. Just not sure I agree with the total account given all the other various factors.