The Cannonball Chronicles

[Michigan Badger]

I just weighed the ball and it's exactly 4 lbs. 6.8 oz.

It's about 3 and 1/4 inches in diameter (maybe a little less).

Okay all you fine southerners and corn fed northerners...what do ya think? Is this a REAL canon ball or not?

If you think not, please let me know exactly why.

I hope I don't have to take more pictures, I'm mainly an office worker these days and standing out in the parking lot taking pictures of such a heavy ball causes me to be in danger of losing weight.

Have a good UN.

M, Bad-ger

 

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[jon43]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

looks like one to me but im no expert. i seen alot of them on the web

 

[bk]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Badger, is that the one the guy found in Minnesota?
Looks good to me.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Badger, is that the one the guy found in Minnesota?
Looks good to me.

Yes. This is that ball.

The guy I got it from has 100% positive feedback and in every way is a stand up kind of guy. I believe his story.

This ball has so much awesome history.

Here's a quote from the seller:

"It was found in a farm field in the mid 1920's near Champlin, Minnesota by my dad."

This was within the general area of the indian wars of the era. I could write more but probably I'd just bore everybody.

Thanks much everyone!

M. Bad-ger

 

[Wetgreenie]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Wow, I drive past Champlin at least three times a week.
something tells me I should stop for a look around this spring!

Check this out:

After being captured by the Sioux Indians in the spring of 1680, Father Louis Hennepin, a Franciscan priest; Michael Accult, a voyager; and Picard Dulay were brought to the site now known as Champlin. In the 18th and 19th centuries, legend has it that there was an Indian trading post at the junction of Elm Creek and the Mississippi River. Charles Miles made the first permanent settlement here, building his house just below the mouth of Elm Creek in 1852.

 

[bk]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Wetgreenie, Thats good information.

Badger, With a little research, you might be able to determined who fired that cannonball.
Awsome find!
Well worth the money!
And if it turns out to be fake, (which I doubt), you have a nice $15 paper weight.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Wow, I drive past Champlin at least three times a week.
something tells me I should stop for a look around this spring!

Check this out:

After being captured by the Sioux Indians in the spring of 1680, Father Louis Hennepin, a Franciscan priest; Michael Accult, a voyager; and Picard Dulay were brought to the site now known as Champlin. In the 18th and 19th centuries, legend has it that there was an Indian trading post at the junction of Elm Creek and the Mississippi River. Charles Miles made the first permanent settlement here, building his house just below the mouth of Elm Creek in 1852.

WOW! Thanks much for the info!

Well, maybe I finally came up with a post worth something

The ball is 100% real and I believe the guys story because it matches with all the facts I've read so far.

Oh, I should also mention that this same seller (where I got the ball) also had other stuff dug at the same site. Like a idiot I didn't buy that stuff. But, then I didn't know all this history.

Yes, if you can research and find the hot spots and get permission...good days are ahead of you.

M. Bad-ger

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Wetgreenie, Thats good information.

Badger, With a little research, you might be able to determined who fired that cannonball.
Awsome find!
Well worth the money!
And if it turns out to be fake, (which I doubt), you have a nice $15 paper weight.

I'm all ears (eyes)...how would one go about starting to track this info down? I'd sure like to know who fired the shot! I'd get that engraved and keep it with the ball for posterity.

 

[Wetgreenie]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

I hope you didn't mean you'd get your ball engraved.
I tried that once...... I makes you limp :

It would be SO cool of the seller could tell you what Field it came from.
If he knows for sure it could even be marked on a MapQuest map or Google earth.
Coax as much as you can out of him.... heck I should go meet him and have him show me

 

[jersey junkie]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

I found one of those in my back yard in New Jersey when I was 10. Everyone told me it was nothing special. I didn't believe them and kept it all these years. I'm glad I did.

mark
www.gas50.com

 

[Burdie]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

WTG badger I think you got something there. Burdie

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Have you mentioned whether it is a solid-shot or a (hollow) shell? I didn't see any mention about that, so I'll assume it's a solid-shot.

Therefore, (and boyoboy I hate to say this), it isn't a cannonball. The weight of a solid-shot for ALL of the Fiield Artillery smoothbore cannons is "right on" a full pound-mark, not fractions of a pound.

Furthermore, the caliber (bore-diameter) of such cannons - and their projectiles - is well-established in Ordnance records. The following info is from the Bore Table in the Diickey/George artillery projectile "encyclopedia" on page 534:
3-pounder (caliber) gun, projectile diameter 2.84 inches, [solid-shot weight 3.0 pounds]
4-pounder gun, projectile diameter 3.12 inches, [solid-shot weight 4.0 pounds]
6-pounder gun, projectile diameter 3.58 inches, [solid-shot weight 6.0 pounds]
9-pounder gun, projectile diameter 4.10 inches [solid-shot weight 9.0 pounds]
12-pounder gun, projectile diameter 4.52 inches, [solid-shot weight 12.0 pounds]

It's possible the measurements made of the ball's weight and diameter were inaccurate. You might want to re-check them with a "precision" caliper and scales. For the moment, all I can say is that there's no such thing as a 3.25" solid-shot cannonabll that weighs 4 pounds 6.8 ounces. I sincerely hope I don't sound lke a Mr-Know-It-All in the above information, but cannonballs (and other 1776-through-1865 projectiles) are my specialty-area of relic study.

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Therefore, (and boyoboy I hate to say this), it isn't a cannonball. The weight of a solid-shot for ALL of the Fiield Artillery smoothbore cannons is "right on" a full pound-mark, not fractions of a pound.

Hi, I do appreciate your comment and willingness to help but I'm affraid you're wrong about all cannon balls being "right on" "not fractions."

Here's a quote from one expert who knows about my ball. I mentioned what you wrote. This is his reply:

"Hi ___,

Not true about the weight! They can weigh almost anything! Some are hollow and used fuses. They were made in almost any size for specific guns. So any weight!"

But again, I do appreciate your kind gesture.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Hi MichiganBadger. Thank you for your good-natured response. In that same spirit, here is some further discussion.

Please re-check the quote from my post and you'll see I was talking about the weight of "SOLID-SHOT" cannonballs - not "every" cannonball (which would of course include hollow shells). Your friend who said my statement was not true would be correct if I hadn't specified I was referring to solid-shot (non-hollow) cannonballs.

In your post you gave the weight and approximate diameter of your cannonabll. The nearest genuine cannonball for it is a 4-pounder (caliber) projectile. Therefore, I posted information from the Bore Table, about the diameter and weights for specific calibers of smoothbore cannons and the cannonballs they fired. Here is an additional Reference for such information:

http://www.civilwarartillery.com/shottables.htm

At that site you will see the official Ordnance Department Regulations' specifications for diameter and weight of a 4-pounder solid-shot ...which is 4.07 pounds and 3.12 inches. Thus, the NON-HOLLOW iron ball you bought, measured at 3.25 inches and 4 pounds 6.8 ounces, is the wrong diameter and SIGNIFICANTLY over-weight. Being almost 6 ounces over-weight might not sound like a lot, but for "appraising" SMALL-CALIBER solid iron balls, it is quite significant.

Furthermore... when shooting muzzleloader cannons, the "fit" of the ammunition with the cannon's bore-diameter is very important. This is why the Ordnance Department regulations specify that Windage (meaning, gap) between a 4-pounder gun's bore-diamter (3.30 inches) and its ammunition-diameter (3.12 inches) must be .18 inches. Your iron ball, at 3.25-inch diameter, would result in just a .05-inch gap ...which is much too tight a fit. (Larger gap/windage is specified because blackpowder produces "ash-fouling" of the gun's bore ...and after repeated firing the bore can become too thickly caked with powder-ash for the ammunition to fit into it ...thus, blackpowder cannon projectiles were very carefully manufactured to have a "large" enough windage/gap to fit into even a heavily fouled cannon-bore.)

Of course, since you've paid good money for it, it's only natural that you'll want a "second opinion" from another well-known dealer in artillery projectiles. So please do send your information and photos to the experts at
www.relicman.com (Harry Ridgeway)
and
www.civilwarartillery.com (Jack Melton & Larry Pawl).

Feel free to send them a copy of this post along with your photos and measurements of the solid iron ball.

Genuine regards,
TheCannonballGuy (Pete George)

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Hi MichiganBadger. Thank you for your good-natured response. In that same spirit, here is some further discussion.

Genuine regards,
TheCannonballGuy (Pete George)

Hi, thanks much for your work and time on this. Since I last posted here I've received a couple more replies from others who specialize in Civil War artillery projectiles.

One of those wrote pretty much the same as you did here.

I've found that my ball is exactly 3 inches and it does weigh 4 lbs. 6.8 oz.

It was found in a farm field in the mid 1920's near Champlin, Minnesota.

One person suggested that it could be a pre-Civil War era cannon.

The ball looks exactly like the real ones in the museum so that's what really puzzles me.

Anyway, one person thought it was most likely a counter-balance weight for some machine.

I really don't know what to think anymore. I know a fellow who has dug several almost exactly the same as my ball at his Rev. War/Civil War site.

Maybe I'll never know for sure.

It makes a heck of a great arm exercising weight

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Relicdigger, I was unaware of your newest reply - because it arrived at this Forum while I was typing my very long post (seen just above).

I want to add:
I don't doubt that the person who sold you the Minnesota Field ball believed it to be an actual cannonball when he sold it to you. For what it's worth to say now, not a single month goes by without somebody bringing me a round (or "round-ish) iron ball for certification/authentification that it is in fact a cannonball. (Hey, it's round(ish) and iron - so it's gotta be a cannonball ...right?"

So, I get out my Precision Calipers/Micrometer and measure the ball. Literally 9 times out of 10 it fails to match any of the historically-documented diameters for cannon ammunition ...and I then have to give the owner some bad news. Not just relic-hunters bring them to me. I get handed quite a few from people who bought them at an antiques-shop, or a yardsale. Most probably, all of those "dealers" thought it was really a cannonball also. But, as I said elsewhere, "There's no such thing as a .19-caliber bullet."

Or, I'll paraphrase what somebody said in a famous murder-trial a few years ago, "If it don't fit ...you can't convict." ;-)

Regards,
PCGeorge (Pete George)

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: Canon Ball HELP!!!!!

Hey, thanks Pete.

I now believe it to be one of those ore balls.

Take a look at the picture. I saw a shiny metal peck-mark on the side so I decided to sand off a spot. It's silver colored! This is no doubt a steel ball filled with lead for the Ball Machine.

What do you think?

Oh well, this isn't nearly as bad as when I got burned $125 for a "genuine water color of a Civil War soldier." Back a few years ago there was this ebay seller out of Arizona selling these machine made copies to suckers like me. That's before I learned that they now have machines that can imitate art that can even fool experts. Sometimes they may even use old canvas and paper.

From now on I buy Civil War stuff only from knowledgable dealers or it must be so corroded and junky looking that no one in his right mind would ever do that to a fake

In the case of this ball, I don't know if this guy knew he was ripping me. But, I only paid a total of $26 for it so maybe he needed the money more than me ...eh?

Thanks much!

 

[bk]

Re: Canon Ball HELP - Update Ball a FAKE!

Well, Badger that sux.
The description of where it was found makes perfect sense. The location got me excited because I know there was activity in that area.
You also mentioned that this guy had other artifacts for sale. Were these also fakes?
If the guy lied about the ball being real, he probably also lied about where he found it.
Why didn't he just say it was from Gettysburg?
I'm really sorry to hear that.
I'll bet his approval rating just got knocked down a bit.

 

[Southcacalaky]

Re: Canon Ball HELP - Update Ball a FAKE!

What ever the truth, I hope you find out for sure to put you at ease, HH Art...

 

[civilman1]

Re: Canon Ball HELP - Update Ball a FAKE!

I think the cannonballguy has some pretty good stat's in front of you MB....But then again I could,He could be wrong....Let's hope for the best....Thought I'd throw this in because I'm JONES'N...Good luck MB and HH!!...