The Battle Begins

according to reports on tv its over 50 miles from the area where it was historically "thought" to be at --thus it clearly NOT in "their" area -- so they can go pound sand --as far as --- their nonsence --its in "our" area claims go..(nice treasure grab try)
 

Ivan... It's just more rhetoric from an uninformed politician. :(

P.S. Odyssey willl fill up his museum with artifacts if they get the go ahead to salvage the Victory.
 

once you spend the time, money and effort to find it and then do the all the dangerous work and get the treasure up --- suddenly everybody and their bleeding uncle somehow by some sort of hook or crook feels their entitled to get a piece of "the" pie --some go as far as saying the "whole" pie belongs to em --silly buggers. :tard:
 

It's a Royal naval war ship, it belongs to the English people. Why doesn't Odyssey give the English they exact location as a show
of good faith? and no excuse on threat of looting by others, the English navy would easily protect the site.
Ossy
 

Odyssey has given the MOD the exact location, but I'll bet Spain won't be told. ;D
 

There is something that has always bugged me about Spain's claims to sunken treasure. I mean, the treasure they are claiming was pillaged from Mexico and Central America. So wouldn't it technically belong to them and not Spain?
 

My experience is that many historical, preservation 501c3 groups etc are filled with nosey, bored people. Not all of them, but many......
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
It's a Royal naval war ship, it belongs to the English people. Why doesn't Odyssey give the English they exact location as a show
of good faith? and no excuse on threat of looting by others, the English navy would easily protect the site.
Ossy
Click to expand...
I don't think it would be in the best interest of the company to tell the British Government the exact location of the ship because if they don't give them the go ahead to excavate the sight or to profit in the find they are out time and big money. It's a shame that this scenario has to play out like this, but when you put money behind finding these wrecks you can't expect them out the goodness of their heart to hand it over for nothing. I guess it's the way of the world now and if you want to see the history of the world see the light of day you'll have to give up something for it. It's a business for Oddessy and it is a historical treasure to England, but if they are only asking for a profit on the coins and not the artifacts I don't see a problem with it. I metal detect for relics in the town that I live in to preserve the history of the town and when I find coins they are just a bonus for me because you don't get much history from a coin. How many coins do you need to tell the history of a shipwreck? It's all about the money and I hope that the two sides can come together an not only bring the history of the ship to light, but both profit so everybody can profit from the find. If we didn't have companies like this finding these wrecks would we in our lifetime ever see them. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here it's just my opinion and like the saying go's everybody has one.

Wolverine.
 

allen_idaho said:
There is something that has always bugged me about Spain's claims to sunken treasure. I mean, the treasure they are claiming was pillaged from Mexico and Central America. So wouldn't it technically belong to them and not Spain?
Click to expand...
Why stop there? How far do you what to go back, or are you just picking on the Spanish, seems to be a favorite pass time here on Tnet.
Forget about the conquest of north America? The English in Africa,Australia etc ! the Portuguese in Brazil etc, the Moores and Romans in
Spain. can we ask the Romans to give back the gold taken from Spanish mines with slave Spanish labour???
Iraq is a sensitive subjet, but do you think the US would be involved if there was no OIL???
ossy
 

Mich.Wolverine " Every country in the world has done things good and bad,so before you knock another country look at the history of
your own" I couldn't have said it any better my self !!! My point exactly.
I agree lets stick to ship wrecks, and my name is Sam.
Cheers Ossy
 

since all countries have done wrong at one time or another ( to heck with em all, says I ) -- I say to them that finds it and gets er off the bottom belongs the booty. ---arrggh that be fair you wants its so bad -- you go and get it --first come first served . that be fair enough.
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
allen_idaho said:
There is something that has always bugged me about Spain's claims to sunken treasure. I mean, the treasure they are claiming was pillaged from Mexico and Central America. So wouldn't it technically belong to them and not Spain?
Click to expand...
Why stop there? How far do you what to go back, or are you just picking on the Spanish, seems to be a favorite pass time here on Tnet.
Forget about the conquest of north America? The English in Africa,Australia etc ! the Portuguese in Brazil etc, the Moores and Romans in
Spain. can we ask the Romans to give back the gold taken from Spanish mines with slave Spanish labour???
Iraq is a sensitive subjet, but do you think the US would be involved if there was no OIL???
ossy
Click to expand...


I don't honestly think people are out to get Spain. I just think that Spain comes across very brash when it comes to their "treasure ships". It is not like these ships are buried in the ground where they are relatively protected. Instead they are out in the ocean getting ripped to pieces by currents and more so by fisherman and their nets. If you have an outfit that can come in and do a top notch archaeological survey(especially when you are talking about deep sea conditions), I don't see the problem of that company salvaging the wreck.

Our historical record is detailed enough for us to know where these "treasures" originated, so I think the point of people saying places like Peru and Ecuador, etc. should be able to stake a claim is actually feasible. If Spain or another country can "remember" far enough back to make a claim on a wreck, shouldn't the country where the treasure originated have the same right? Who is to say the gold and silver didn't originate from Inca, Chimu, Moche, etc. cultural items? In regards to the Black Swann wreck, the mint mark is Lima, so Peru should have just as much claim as Spain does.

I honestly feel that every salvage company has a strict responsibility in conducting a thorough archaeological survey of shipwrecks, and as long as they are doing so, they should get spoils. The odds of a university getting to these wrecks before they are completely obliterated other than the remaining cargos, is pretty slim, so why not let someone get that information while we can?
 

Federal court records filed by Odyssey seeking exclusive salvage rights, in order to assert ownership " arrest the vessel" they have used a bronze
cannon! http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ad=article&ArticleId=6279 by David L Ganz
This guy seems to think Odyssey have found and salvaged the Sussex ???
"Odyssey got to keep 80% percent of the first $50 million in salvage value on a diminishing scale.... The Sussex has not been found, and
did it really have treasure on it :icon_scratch:
Mr Ganz seems to use the deal Odyssey had in place for the Sussex as justification for Odyssey claiming salvage rights, there's only one
big problem! Flagged Navel War Ship ! with human remains, Odyssey are in dangerous waters again, we will wait for England to reply.
Ossy
 

What now for Odyssey ?
Two sovereign Immune vessels, in front of the courts.
The ocean explorer in dock? Deep water ahead.
Ossy
 

Come on Guys........it's all about the MONEY that can be made off the find...period!

We can't very well sit and criticize a company, which has spent countess monies out of their own funds to make a find possible to simply want to roll over and play the good guy by giving any nation all of it's spoils that wants to come running out of the woodwork claiming rights by ownership of the vessel when it went missing.

It seems that no matter where you go looking for treasure, be it land of water site, there is always someone in government of some sort willing to try and seize the proceeds from you. We have the same problem here in Texas. The State seems to think that ANYTHING found under it's soil belongs to the State and are more than willing to pass laws, through the State Antiquities Act, that literally RAPE the salvor of ANY rights!

Case in point........if it had not been for a private citizen with his metal detector, the site of Lasalle's Fort Saint Louis would still be unknown. However, once found and duly reported to the State, the State sent in it's archeologist to excavate the area, preserving the cannons and artifacts...which is a good thing. The bad side of it is that if you go to the State site concerning Fort Saint Louis, you will be hard pressed to find any mention of the PRIVATE CITIZEN that actually found the cannons!

Metal detectors in the hands of a private citizen can be of invaluable assistance and oft are the MAIN reason something is found, however most areas of government want to deny our hobby by saying that we would not preserve the site. It's BULL****!
 

See how facts get twisted around? Crazy Greek meant to say the site was LOOTED by metal detectorists.
 

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