THE ARKIES ARE HERE, THE ARKIES ARE HERE!!!

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I think is post was more about my needing to blow off some steam and vent my frustrations, it wasn't about the finds made.
The pics I’m posting here are from a couple of visits over a three-week period.


A few weeks ago, I was driving by one of the most productive sites I’ve ever detected and noticed that the Arkies were starting to do some serious work here. I’ve known for over a year now that this site was sold to a developer, I guess deep down I hoped that day would never come. It made my heart sad to think that my days of detecting this beautiful site are now behind me… to the point that I almost started to cry. I realize that archeologists serve an important purpose and I appreciate what they do. My only wish is that we had easy public access to the information archeologists glean from doing digs like this, literally in 'our backyards'.


Archaeology developed from 'Antiquarianism' in Europe during the 19th century and has since become a discipline practiced across the world. Archaeology has been used by countries to create visions of the past. Since its early development, various specific sub-disciplines of archaeology have developed, including maritime archaeology, feminist archaeology and archaeoastronomy, and numerous different scientific techniques have been developed to aid archaeological investigation. They study past human activity by excavating, dating and interpreting objects, artifacts and sites of historical interest. They implement excavation projects at historical sites and collect data that forms a clearer understanding of the past. Artifacts are objects like tools and pottery, things that people would have carried or lost in the course of their daily activities. These artifacts are the things we consider to be the “buried treasure.” Archaeologists also look for clues about past environments in things like seeds, animal bones and soil types.


It’s amazing to see how deep the excavator had to dig down to reach the foundations of the house, at least 18” and it was located exactly where I thought it was all along. I also knew by my finds here that the homestead had likely burnt, and I was right as you can see by the pic. I also noticed that they’ve started to clear a path to where I think the barn was located. I did make a couple of ‘eyeball finds’ in the dirt piled up with all the scrap iron and bits of wood. I spotted the green glass ‘knob’, the horseshoe and the clear glass perfume bottle, unfortunately it’s top has been snapped off. I took a couple of pics of the Arkies progress from the top of one of the dirt piles. I sure would like to know what they’re finding here to do such an extensive dig. But as it is with all the sites Arkies dig, locals like me will hear nothing about the history of the early pioneers who lived here so long ago.

I then headed to another site Arkies have been digging since May. It’s located in a field next to a field that I had permission to detect but never knew there was a home site here. The Arkies finished sifting/excavating here a few weeks ago and have since leveled out the site. I made a couple of passes on the periphery finding two toe-taps, two buttons (one black glass, the other mother-of-pearl) a horse rosette in poor condition and the remains of an HB&H (Holmes, Booth & Haydens) lantern part dated ‘PATENT 1862’. I also found all the early colourful pottery fragments here, this is definitely a site I’ll revisit after the beans have been harvested.

Sorry for the long rant… but a few years ago I was called “A Thief of History” by an Arkie, so it’s kinda hard for me not to rant!

Dave

 

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[Johncoho]

I had a bad experience with an Arkie in an old ghost town in Arizona a few years ago. I and a friend had gone back to do some detecting at this place that has been trashed with newer garbage. Our club had an outing here the week before and the club had permission for the outing. This person was in civilian clothes with no ID and was telling us this was an active site which it wasn't as we had been going there for several years and never saw any Arkies. He made us empty a bucket of newer trash that we were going to get rid of and said we had to leave and could be arrested. I made him go back to his vehicle to show us ID and then I showed him mine and invited him to come to our club to give a talk on what we could and couldn't detect. He never contacted anyone in the club and never showed up. I never saw him again.

 

[CRUSADER]

We can only change these out-dated opinions by working together. Creating divisions will harm our hobby more than their careers, so we have to make the most effort. We work with many open-mined Archies, but there are still many closed minded ones. They learn from us, as we learn from them. So if their reports are hard to get hold of, working with them gets that information. Although I'm not sure how easy that is on your side of the pond. Over here its fairly easy to volunteer our services, free of change & with keeping nothing. This is the compromise that build trust. As we know there are bad Archies & plenty of bad detectorists as well, which one will you be?

 

[Rookster]

Nice dig.Congrats

 

[huntsman53]

Sorry for the Arkie problems but congrats on your finds! Must have been someone important in the history of Ontario to go to all that trouble to unearth the foundation of the home and now, possibly the barn. Maybe the Developer knows what the Arkies are up to and might just spill the beans if you have a nice conversation with him or her.

 

[Plumbata]

I'm sorry to hear about the professional tomb raiders pillaging your spot. I was wondering if they excavated any outhouse pits? With the ground opened up and location of larger structures revealed you might be able to easily find and dig out the hopefully bottle-laden privy pits. My understanding is that rural pits generally contained less than in towns since they had lots of options for discarding trash, but I'd still try. Back in school I was doing some research on the excavations done at Abraham Lincoln's residence in Springfield IL, and learned that they had not dug the privies or the filled-in well deeper than 3 feet, and in the well they were finding lots of 1850s items that were surely deposited by the Lincolns. The decision to ignore such resources has always baffled me.

feminist archaeology

I just found the problem fellas

 

[releventchair]

Maybe find out which group the Arkies are?

I had at one time some documents/paper books of archaeological digs in the Eastern U.S.A. , and more exciting ,one from sites about ten minutes from me regarding Native mounds.
The local activities were places I have known of and left alone ,and one a Native used to tell me about his sifting river sand below.
The guy in charge of the research and the group involved was named ,plus photo's and info.
It was a college group.

Knowing who and when allowed research beyond the material I had.
Dates were so long ago I did not attempt to make contact with any one involved ,but the college may well have archived info to review. I did find some related info online through knowing who was involved..
Time passing is required to get stuff published ,but also seems to loosen reluctance to share info....

I don't look for recent data from/in Canada ,but historically have found there are some solid records. Not a haphazard attitude of history there so to speak.
The right people approached with the right attitude might lead to archived data. Stating ones-self as being a detectorist might not be as productive as being curios about a regions history.....Unless some one bemoans the fact they could use one. L.o.l..
The site in the o.p. will likely have a great lag time before being it's findings are released. But learning who is behind the dig could open windows to other sites data in the meantime?

 

[A2coins]

tell him your an Arkie also

 

[jdsly]

Funny this should come up on the forum today. Had a conversation with an archie today.....he was of the opinion that we were all looters....crazy

 

[uglymailman]

I worked at a coal mine in Missouri. Before mining could take place the Arkies had to do a study of the site to make sure there was no lost Native articles. If they found some (arrowheads etc.), then they had to do a more in depth study, sometimes delaying the operation for years.
They approved an area of maybe 400 acres. The top 2 feet of topsoil was put in one pile, 2 foot of subsoil removed and put into another pile. When reclamation came and the topsoil was being put back, it was moved with 3 big earth movers and a D8 dozer to push them to help them load. The dozer operator had time between cycles and one day looked out on his tracks and saw a 4 or 5 inch arrowhead. He got it and walked around while waiting for the earth movers to come back and found a couple more. For several weeks he did this between cycles and found on some days half a lunch pail full.
The Arkies miss some I guess. Good luck yall.

 

[Professor of Engineering]

Congratualtions on the finds, sorry for the lost site.

I have worked with many "Archies" over the years most are very nice some are well you know...!

 

[Qball]

I am going to tell you some things you don't want to hear but I think it is important for everyone to know. You need to read the language of the antiquities act and the laws regarding use of public lands in Arizona or whatever US state you are hunting in. I hunt the Arizona Mexico boarder a couple of times a year and have learned to be very careful about where I hunt and what I hunt for where. In AZ you have land belonging to the BLM, the US forrest service, the State land trust, the national parks, and national monuments. According to the antiquities act you cannot hunt for relics over 50 years old on any of these. Even an old nail is considered to be an infraction if it is older than 50 years and in your pouch. You can prospect for gold on BLM and Forrest service land if it is not claimed land but again do not pick up your trash or you may be subject to arrest. State land trust land is a no go, you can carry your detector across it but do not get caught using it. On national monuments you can have it packed up in your car but do not dare take it out. So where can you legally hunt? We are talking relics here. On private land thats it and even so there are laws concerning that to so know what is what and take your own risks. In two weeks I will be in England hunting the fields of Essex and complying with all their laws and regulations. that in my opinion is the only country in the world that regulates their detectorists in a civilized manner. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

 

[FreeBirdTim]

In two weeks I will be in England hunting the fields of Essex and complying with all their laws and regulations. that in my opinion is the only country in the world that regulates their detectorists in a civilized manner. GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

Yes, it's very civilized how they take what you find, force you to sell it and then give you a cut for it. One of the many flaws of living under an antiquated monarchy system.

We have true freedom in this country. You find it, you keep it or do whatever you want with it. Can't beat that!

 

[CRUSADER]

Yes, it's very civilized how they take what you find, force you to sell it and then give you a cut for it. One of the many flaws of living under an antiquated monarchy system.

We have true freedom in this country. You find it, you keep it or do whatever you want with it. Can't beat that!

Lets put some sudo-facts behind your statement;

''They take what you find'' - This is only 1% of what I find, they don't take it, I declare it. This is because 99% of what I find I can keep (in agreement with the landowner)
''force you to sell it and then give you a cut for it'' - Of the 1% I declare, 85% of it gets disclaimed & handed back, the 15% of 1% that the Museums keep they could give me 100% of its market value, if that was my agreement with the landowner (although most default to a 50/50, but its not the Law).

So in real terms the total items the Museums keep is such a small calculation below the 1% of my total finds, its near impossible to tell you how smaller %age it is. (My figures are conservative, & the actual numbers will be even smaller, so its as factual as I can make it)

This has been so successful that the Treasure cases have gone up from 200 a year to 1200 last year. Too many to administer, they are reviewing the Law as we speak, I hope it gets even quicker to administer because that is my main concern. 18 months is too long.

 

[ToddsPoint]

I have a 1930's book called "Digging in the Southwest", by archaeologist Ann Axtel Morris. She was the wife of archaeologist Earl Morris. Together they dug many famous cliff dwelling sites in the southwest. Here is a quote from archaeologist Ann:

"Archaeology...treasure hunting decently concealed under the respectable cloak of science."


Nothing has changed as far as I can see. Gary

 

[RustyGold]

I have a 1930's book called "Digging in the Southwest", by archaeologist Ann Axtel Morris. She was the wife of archaeologist Earl Morris. Together they dug many famous cliff dwelling sites in the southwest. Here is a quote from archaeologist Ann:

"Archaeology...treasure hunting decently concealed under the respectable cloak of science."


Nothing has changed as far as I can see. Gary

This^

 

[Muddyhandz]

What's the historical significance of this site? The Ontario government is working this site and another field over from another one of your sites?
Wow, sounds like quite the budget they have! That would take a decade to do that kind of work here in Manitoba with no budget and no staff.
I'm the one out there saving sites before development only to get yelled at by the archies for not having a permit.
How old do these sites go back to? Is the property still under ownership of your permission?
Now that they scraped it down for you, go in there and hammer it!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Crusader, you call it anything you want, but what they do would never be allowed here. Whether it's 1% or not, they are taking what you found and forcing you to sell it.

Got this quote from Wikipedia. Perfect example of why truly free countries do not tolerate a monarchy. Ridiculous premise that everything in the country belongs to the Crown. Can't believe you guys put up with this baloney in the 21st century.

the Treasure Act 1996 introduced a new scheme which came into effect on 24 September 1997. Any treasure found on and after that date regardless of the circumstances in which it was deposited, even if it was lost or left with no intention of recovery, belongs to the Crown, subject to any prior interests or rights held by any franchisee of the Crown.

 

[huntsman53]

Crusader, you call it anything you want, but what they do would never be allowed here. Whether it's 1% or not, they are taking what you found and forcing you to sell it.

Got this quote from Wikipedia. Perfect example of why truly free countries do not tolerate a monarchy. Ridiculous premise that everything in the country belongs to the Crown. Can't believe you guys put up with this baloney in the 21st century.

While I don't agree that any and all finds should belong to any Crown, the British Antiquities Act system sure works better than the Dictatorship of the State of Florida. The finds should belong to the People not any Crown! The days of Monarchies and Dictators have long passed and should have been abolished long before now as more people on this Earth have been murdered, massacred, killed in battle, starved, suffered and/or had their' lands, homes and livelihoods taken away in the name of these Monarchs and Dictators than practically any other reason outside of the influence of the Catholic Church but when the influence of the Catholic Church is factored in, it becomes much worse.

 

[CRUSADER]

Crusader, you call it anything you want, but what they do would never be allowed here. Whether it's 1% or not, they are taking what you found and forcing you to sell it.

Got this quote from Wikipedia. Perfect example of why truly free countries do not tolerate a monarchy. Ridiculous premise that everything in the country belongs to the Crown. Can't believe you guys put up with this baloney in the 21st century.

Maybe, your missing 99% of my point. All artifacts & coins on private property belong to the owner of the land unless they fall under the terms of the Act. Its only less than 1% that the Crown has rights on, & you think this unfair? Odd? & by rights that means first refusal of the less than 1%, which often means disclaiming, so that 1% becomes nearly nothing. I'm not crying, I've been honest & got a great collection - thanks.
It's those that break our Laws & try & keep finds on land they shouldn't be on, that should be the focus or Archies that break the same Laws.