super early cut silver aztec era coin? maybe spanish reale?

[dteks]

I posted this in todays finds and another member suggested I post it here too:



Revisited a super old area. The oldest coin came from the 1500s. This is from the lower 48 of the USA but I dont want to say where. Anyway I havent cleaned this, it is toned and has been cut down with shears or something. The item is very crude and asymmetrical. I think this could be something early and special in regards to money. Its weight is 2.7 grams. It could simulate a light silver reale coin.

My problem is the site is a multiple occupancy site from 1800s and earlier and I cant be certain about it being what I hope it is.

Any ideas?

Maybe this is one of those Ameros I keep hearing about.

Thanks!

 

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[Trez]

Merry Christmas Dtek,

Can you post the other side of the coin on the left.
It is a 1/2 real.

The other item, have no guess, sorry.

Trez

 

[dteks]

Merry Christmas Dtek,

Can you post the other side of the coin on the left, I can probably tell you more when you do.
It is a reales...the left one

Trez

Trez thanks. The reale is Mex, I know what that is and have found many. I am interested in the other thingy.

 

[ted750]

I really have no idea, but it kind of looks like the work of a bored spanish sailor.... Maybe carving up a cob to immitate an aztec artifact? It reminds me of what british sailors used to do with georgian coppers, make them look like she was sitting on a chamber pot.
Very cool find no matter what it is!
Congratulations!

 

[RELICDUDE07]

It may have been a whole figure and they cut its head off..... In the days that was made , they would cut anything and everything and trade it.Just a guess. ...relic....... Killer find!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://www.precolumbiangold.com/collection.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont know what you think it is or what state you found it in, but the ancient Florida Indians where known to rework Spanish escudos into face like medallions. It is just a thought possibly in another direction. I dont recognize this style face but I am no expert. Here is well known example of a Calusa Indian medallion made from a Spanish gold coin.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

you may try posting in "what is it?"

 

[Sapper23]

dteks,


Silver cobs were sometimes deliberately shaped into " Hearts" and most animal's, bells,
and arrowheads, berets, and " MAL-LIKE or Other Figures " denominations running from 1/2 to 8 reals.
early as 1664 to about 1759, primarily from Potosi' mint.

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Where you at dteks?? Find any new stuff?Not an exact match but makes you wonder !!!!!!!

 

[EE THr]

The plateau on the top right, as seen from the front, could be a casting sprue. The side looks like it was ground with a wheel. Who did that kind of work, and when?

It could be newer than it looks---or older than ordinarily imagined.

It looks like it was never finished-off, for some reason. Maybe it was lifted from the shop, and then lost.

The original post is two years old....

 

[gwdigger]

Where you at dteks?? Find any new stuff?Not an exact match but makes you wonder !!!!!!!

From Maryland. this is my newer user ID. I cant find that password for DTEKS any longer. I used to search many areas dating back to the early 17th century. I dont often get to go swinging these days.

The area where found was said to be a trading post which makes sense since we found may pieces of cut silver. The item appears to be cut or intentionally broken from a larger piece.

 

[EE THr]

gwdigger (dteks)---

Having done a little silversmithing in the past, I think this piece seems to have interesting contradictions in craftsmanship.

The sides do look sheared. If sheared, a special shear would have had to be made to form the curvature, because a common straight shear could not have been used, especially on the inside, or concave, cut. If a shear had been made for this cut, surely they would have used the same shear for both sides; but both sides do not exactly match. Also, when sheared, it leaves a slightly rounded edge on the entry side, and a lip on the exit side, which I don't see in these pictures (except on the Real).

If it wasn't cut with a shear, then that leaves a grinding wheel or a jeweler's saw as possibilities. I think a hand file can be eliminated, due to the uniformity of the tool marks.

If a grinding wheel, it would need to be very fine grained, with a perfected face. The question is, when was this technology available? Also, the "inside cut" portion has a very sharp "V" cut, which would require a very sharp-cornered grinding wheel. I've never seen one with corners of the face that sharp, which leads to the question, "did they have such finely formed grinding wheels back "then"?

The remaining (that I can think of) tool would be a jeweler's saw. When did these become available? Another problem I have with the jeweler's saw possibility is the very uniform cut marks on this piece. This uniformity would indicate a steady sawing pressure and stroke rate, which is not normally seen when using a common (hand tool) jeweler's saw. Therefore, a motorized saw, like a band saw or tabled scroll saw would be indicated. But how could that be?

Now, there could be some simple explanation as to how this could have been done long ago, that I am not thinking of. And if so, I would really like to know about it, because I think it is a very curious find. In fact, I don't know of a way to produce such a smooth and consistant cut in silver today, with the cut marks being exactly parallel to each other, like they are in this piece.

So you can see why it immediately looked strange to me, even though it took me awhile to think it through!

Also, if "they" had such ability and equipment to make this kind of a cut, why didn't they "finish it off" with filing, sanding, and polishing?

Someone knowledgeable about artifacts like this one, and the tools available to whoever crafted it, might have the simple answer. Or you might have an OOP Artifact on your hands.

Pictures of it with the dirt washed off would be good, too.

Thanks for posting this very interesting piece!